What Your Doctor Won’t Tell You About Keto | Ken Berry on Health Theory

thanks for tuning in to this episode of help theory sponsored by our friends at athletic greens we've got an awesome offer for you guys in the description below so be sure to check that out in today's episode with dr. ken berry we discuss why your doctor is lying to you the importance of eating ancestrally why the u.s. nutrition guidelines are absolute garbage and the efficacy of the carnivore diet everybody welcome to health theory today's guest is dr. ken berry he's a board certified family physician who has treated over 25,000 unique patients from newborns to centenarians and everything in between he's also the author of the controversial book lies my doctor told me a book he became obsessed with writing after realizing that much of what he'd been taught in medical school about nutrition was just flat-out wrong after years of research and getting his own health in order through a bespoke ketogenic approach he began challenging the medical establishment and trying to separate fact from fiction and help his patients achieve optimal health I want to talk about is how this all started for you being a doctor that himself was overweight like what did that trigger in you and how did that start this whole ball rolling so I was raised in a very poor family but a very proud family and the parable that I grew up hearing was the parable of the preacher who was caught in the bar and when the congregation said what are you doing dude and he said you do as I say not as I do and that was the defining parable of my childhood don't ever be that guy and so I kind of grew up with that philosophy you you lead by doing you lead by example and you lead the way and so when I years into my practice I became very I was almost 300 pounds Wow I was pre-diabetic all my inflammatory markers were getting crazy and one day I remember I've been over to tie my shoe and got short of breath and I was already starting to see the looks in inpatient rooms you know when I'd be counseling a patient who was overweight and I'd be telling them you know the American Diabetes Association died or join Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig and I kept noticing the glance down at my Dunlap I don't know if you know what that is or not been in the South happens when your belly done lapped over your belt right and so I'm like yeah I can't be that guy I can't I can't go in there tell you Tom you gotta lose weight man when it looks like my water's about to break so then what was that first step and so I climbed up in the attic got down all my nutrition notes from from medical school and you might envision this these you know me coming down with this Pocari Asst tomes and stacks and it was actually about this much there's a small paperback book and a half semester worth of notes and so I went through all that and I'm like maybe I forgot something right and to sum up what I was taught med school it was 8 lots of whole-grain avoid saturated fat and jog and so monk ok so I started doing that and I did it faithfully for a month month and a half and gained another five or ten pounds and so at that point doctors have this thing they always think their patients are secretly non-compliance I got to tell you joined the gym stopped eating Cheetos but secretly I know you're in the bedroom eating the honey bun and you're not getting on the treadmill right and so but the problem was I knew I had been doing it doctor I wasn't fooling anybody I was with me I knew that I was jogging a mile a day and I knew I was eating zero saturated fat and eating multiple servings of whole grains and eating lots of fresh fruit and I was gaining weight and my numbers were getting worse and I said ok so obviously I don't know a damn thing about human nutrition and so I went back to the drawing board and and kind of stepped outside of my box and started reading books that we weren't given in medical school and that that was kind of the beginning of it all that's really interesting to me that you were able to look at that and say well I guess I don't know or understand this so how do you stay so open minded and how do you stay open minded now or do you I guess like you obviously have a pretty hardcore vision of what's working now things that work for you things that are working for your patients how do you stay open-minded now as you learn more and more well I'm constantly reading and researching and looking and I'm weird in the way that I'm happy to be proven wrong I don't have a problem with at all I've already been proven wrong on my initial you know what I thought was right and so if someone comes along with something better then I'm happy to listen because my progress kind of followed circuitous path and so it was kind of a natural progression from Paleo ancestral to primal to low carb high healthy fat and then ultimately taquito and then for the last eight months I've been almost exclusively carnivore and that that's actually been for me the penultimate step of my health I've never felt this good and had numbers this good alright well we're gonna get to that first I've heard you talk about how we've ended up here and that's something that I find utterly fascinating so how did the medical establishment end up preaching with a straight face whole grains and all of that stuff well it there's several things that kind of came together all at the same time we had the the the misleading research by Ansel keys and then we had all of the big food corporations and we had all this wheat and we had all this corn and so they had to sell that and so it's almost like we created the perfect storm of big medicine Big Pharma and big food all coming together all three making billions in profit but everybody getting sicker because of it but not sicker quickly enough for it to throw up a red flag because if I put strychnine in your water obviously that was immediately bad right but if I just slowly poison you and it takes 20 years nobody's the wiser and so that's kind of how the chronic inflammation of the the stupid American diet has come to a head and now we have this other great thing called the the Internet right and so anybody can virtually look up any research study and so when a doctor says all the research shows that that you know saturated fat leads directly to heart disease now there are people they can print out every single study that has those keywords in it and look at it and go where I don't see it anywhere where is it ads I see hints of it and I say you know tiny relative risk values in observational research but where's the definitive study that says in this control study we show without doubt that elites to be you eat a lot of saturated fat you get heart disease the ends it that study doesn't exist and so now the cats kind of out of the bag because anybody can look this stuff up and you don't have to Google many words until you understand exactly what that studies saying talk to me about questioning things so how do people and obviously you encourage people heavily in your book to begin to question things and understand things and be their own advocate what does that process look like so the one thing that even I struggle with when I'm beginning a new topic is I don't know who the hell to listen to and you're gonna get a lot of conflicting voices and the good and the bad of the Internet is you can find anything but anyone can also post anything and so you get you know a lot of conflicting information do you have a way that you walk your patients through how to begin to discern fact from fiction most of the time they've already done the trial and error research before they get to me just because I tend to attract that kind of patient people who are proactive who have a plan who want to get better and then it also comes down to the N equals one of tried on yourself and you know anybody who says oh you shouldn't eat an all meat diet for a month that's that's gonna hurt you obviously human beings we've been doing that for millennia that's not gonna hurt you to try that for a month it doesn't work move on to something else try vegan for a month see what that does there's enough people who've done that enough times that's not a dangerous proposition and so if you were going to if if somebody wanted to do an nf1 protocol which I am so into and that's really become my obsession with dealing with Lisa's illness and realizing that all the literature in the world like it'll take you down a path that maybe works for some distribution of the bell curve but when you get down to that one individual person different things react differently but doing an N of one well is actually pretty difficult so what do you suggest do you strip people down to say all the way down to a carnivore diet then you build back in or do you taper them down slowly to pull them off of sugar like what what is your end of one protocol look like yeah most people start out with just eliminating the obvious culprits and so we are will get rid of all sugars even organic locally sourced honey and agave nectar that's organic will be you know and people think well that's got to be good right no that's pure sugar and so we get rid of all sugars that's step one and then we get rid of all grains that's step two and then step three is to get rid of all vegetable oils and so for most people with olive oil well not olive oil is good it's naturally oily right you don't have to chemically Express the oil but more like seed oils like canola like soybean the the oils that have to go to the chemical factory to become oil and so usually almost always those three steps are gonna make people feel better they're gonna feel better and that's feeling better than you felt in years that's motivation to go okay now I'm really I'm feeling great I want to feel even better what's the next step and then that would vary for different people depending on what conditions they had and where they're from the in the world or their ancestors have lived for the last hundred thousand years how much they're willing to give up versus what kind of compromises they want to make so many variables come into play and that's why they call it practice even if something is completely natural like a local organic naturally sourced honey right from the comb you're biting into it yourself like why do you have them strip up that I think a lot of people believe in natural and I believe in natural but what we have to do is we have to make our diet as ancestrally appropriate as we possibly can because human beings have been on this planet as homo sapiens sapiens for about 200,000 250,000 years and in that time we ate lots of certain foods and you can go back and you can look at the the nitrogen and carbon dating and you can pretty much figure out what different peoples ate in different parts of the world and so we know that at no time in history did people live on 300 grams of carbs a day or 350 grams or even more a day like we do in modern society that never happened the vast majority of humans on the planet ate lots of fatty meat they would eat some veggies there on purpose or if they couldn't get fatty meat and then once a year they would eat some berries and maybe some fruit depending on what latitude of the world you lived in right and if you live far enough north or far enough south you didn't even eat you didn't even eat that in the summer just didn't grow and then maybe once a year if you lived in the right part of the world you'd find a honey tree and oh yeah the entire tribe would wear that tree out right and they would lay around in a sugar coma for three days but that happened once every year or two that wasn't an everyday thing but now we're trying to tell people you know the powers that be the actual nutrition authorities are trying to tell people yeah you need to eat 50 grams of carbohydrates per meal three times a day and then three snacks in between with 10 to 20 grams of carbohydrates in each snack and so I think that's ancestrally very inappropriate and that's what's going to lead to the to the inflammation to the the chronically elevated blood glucose the chronically elevated insulin levels the inflammation in the disease so I think a way into that to get people to understand how it can cause such a metabolic disconnect is what you say about milk and I've never heard anybody talk is directly about milk as you do so walk us through how much milk should people be eating why or why not and so you have to understand my my context I grew up being a milk baby when I was playing three sports in high school I would drink a gallon of milk a day okay because I was taught that that'll make you strong that'll make you a better an athlete right and of course it was 2% milk because I didn't need too much saturated fat that's all my my grandmother would buy for me and so this comes from a guy that used to live on milk that I still love milk but I have immediate symptoms now being a zone inflamed as I am now if I had a glass of milk immediately I start to have the throat clearing in the heartburn and after several days the dandruff and the and the acne everything would start to come back and I've actually experimented with that it's like yeah definitely I don't need to drink milk and so there are three macronutrients in milk there's the saturated fat there are there's the proteins and then there's the sugar right the like and so milk its primary purpose is to take a newborn helpless mammal and help it gain weight and grow as quickly as possible that's the purpose of milk it's not to help you lose weight as we've been told it's not to help you make muscles though it's it is to help you gain weight as quickly as possible for that particular species right and so the proteins for many many people are inflammatory even either a little bit or substantial amount and so you get this inflammation because you're drinking a protein that's not really the protein that that's made for human beings and then you have the saturated fat which we've all been taught to fear but which in the end which is going to turn out to be the thing you need to worry about the least that's actually the good part of milk and so I still use dairy in my diet but I only use full fat cheese butter ghee maybe a little heavy cream and the my logic for that is is that all of the lactose has been removed from a full fat cheese because the microbe that turned it from milk to cheese ate up all the sugar that's what it was after and so it but then in the process it also denatures the protein so it changes the physical shape of the the protein and making it much less inflammatory and then of course it's full fat so I've got all that good saturated fat which is what is good for me and so that's why I think full fat dairy nothing less fatty than heavy cream is probably not that bad for most people but you mentioned the bell curve earlier and there is a distribution out on the tail who can't even drink heavy cream there's still too much inflammatory protein even in heavy cream for them yeah the the inflammation that's really interesting to me and it seems like a preponderance of the stuff that you talk about is really designed to lower inflammation one I'd like to know why so much the standard American diet causes inflammation like at a at a cellular level what's going on and then to what are some like quick biomarkers that people should be working with their doctor to track to see if they're trending in the right direction so anytime you feed an animal something that's not a part of its natural diet it's going to get sick it's going to get inflammation it's it's gonna it's going to not feel good it's not a not going to perform as well and that that's true for dogs that's true for horses that's true for humans and so veterinary sciences is much advanced over medical science if you have a sick dog and you go to the vet one of the very first things he's going to ask you is what have you been feeding this dog mmm right because that matters that's a big deal and so if you've been feeding this dog a vegan diet that's what's wrong with the dogs stop feeding him something that he's not supposed to eat and the same holds true for humans only for the last few hundred years have we been eating grains in the quantity that we eat now and you know we've been cultivating grains for ten or twelve thousand years but just because we were cultivating grain ten thousand years ago doesn't mean we were having 11 servings a day of grain back then like we're supposed to have now right according to the official guidelines and then also some experts would argue that the grain we have today is not the same grain of a thousand years ago or 5,000 years ago that it's it's not necessary even if it hasn't been genetically modified it's been crossbred enough times that it's essentially a different species of grain and so we just haven't had enough evolutionary time to adapt to it and to get used to it let's put a let's dig deeper on that so what would we be crossbreeding for obviously palatability it would be one but so is it increasingly high in gluten like what is it that we're putting into it that makes it hyper palatable that becomes this increasing problem I think there's there's a much higher percentage of gluten and I think there are there several other inflammatory proteins that are in much higher concentrations now than they were hundreds of years ago and then back to you know a thousand years ago you ground your wheat between two big rocks and so it was it was barely processed and now we grind it up into the finest powder imaginable which makes it hyper palatable it makes it easy to eat a lot of it and you don't have to really do any work to eat it and then if it is inflammatory for your system which I think it is for most humans the surface area contacted by the tiny articles of wheat is much much greater than the surface area that would be contacted internally with the more coarse ground wheat of the past that's interesting and are you talking about that from a permeability standpoint yeah well yeah absolutely and so much of grain isn't is insoluble fiber right you can't digest it at all your bacteria might might use some of it in the in the large bowel but as far as you digesting a lot of it you can't right and so but when you grind it up into the finest powder imaginable then your body's more able to assimilate even more of it and you wind up with more of an inflammatory shock because you're able to absorb more of it it's really interesting I want to go back to what you said about veterinarian medicine being ahead of human medicine and that they lead with what are you eating why do you think that's the case it's actually really interesting to me because it makes good sense but usually he's a standalone guy he doesn't have a bevy of specialist specialists you know at the hospital vet hospitals and so he has to kind of think holistically about the animal and globally about the animal he can't ignore their diets because you know most farmers are not gonna tolerate putting their their dog or their horse no matter what a thoroughbred they are on five six seven eight nine ten twenty four prescription medications and so a vet's job is to fix the animal not medicate the animal and so I think that they just they come at it from a different perspective and therefore they give different results I think it conspiracy theorists II which is not my normal bent but how much of this the problem in the standard American diet is a problem of systems that's maybe a weird word but I mean in that you've got you said their job is to fix the animal not medicate the animal how much in what's happening in humans is that we are on a intention or otherwise a system of medicating people and then one thing you said about Ancel keys that I found really really interesting was that he was a bully and that he would actually if people challenged him he would shut them down and so people stopped challenging him because it would end up damaging their career and sort of accidentally created this massive knock-on effect of nobody challenging the thinking yeah how much of what we're dealing with now is related to a bunch of weird sort of systemic things well it really is kind of the perfect storm of Ancel keys research and you know he wasn't an MD he wasn't no he was not a medical doctor at all but he did this huge research study in which he took it he collected data from 22 countries as you probably know but he only published the data from 7 countries and that's why it's called the 7 country study but he just cherry picked the data because he he believed in a vegetable heavy diet he believed that eating animal products was inherently either bad or unhealthy and so since his research was not really peer-reviewed in any meaningful way since it wasn't double-blinded since it wasn't randomized his bias slipped right into the research and that's one of the system things that is is our our current nutritional research is terrible because of those very things most of the studies are observational in nature most of them use a food frequency questionnaire and they'll ask you questions like how many cups of ribs have you eaten in the last three months or how many pounds of broccoli have you eaten in the last three months who could possibly answer that in any meaningful way and so you and so if the researcher has a bias it's it's human nature it's not a conspiracy it's just human nature if you believe something and there's nobody looking over your shoulder your belief is gonna seep into your work but the problem is is that a lot of the schools of nutrition and a lot of the medical schools still cite that research routinely as gospel and so until enough people know better than that and stop doing that that research with his inherent bias is going to keep slipping into the medical recommendations and that's just one of the many systems that that I think you're broken that have to be fixed before we can be a healthy people again and what is fixed to look like so what did you do to yourself what do you teach your patients so you got to get rid of all the sugars you got to get rid of all the grains you got to get rid of all the vegetable oils or the seed oils and then for some people that's it that's all they need at that point their body the inflammation gets better their markers at what markers are alright so you there's a there's a bevy of them and different experts kind of have their own favorites but you could look at a riff retire through site sedimentation rate you could look at a CRP which you can have a high sensitivity or cardiac or just a regular CRP which is C reactive protein you can look at home with 16 levels you can look at ferritin levels you can look at all these different markers and and the problem is is we haven't done this enough for long enough to really know which ones are the very best right some people look at fibrinogen there are all these other markers that were still kind of experimenting with because everybody's been so busy prescribing pills they haven't been looking at hey what's the best marker for inflammation so I can know I'm having a meaningful effect on this human but most people when they do step one two and three and then start playing around with some of the other steps they can do they feel so much better that they don't care what the lab say they're like no dude I haven't felt this great in 10 years and that's not to say you never can have sugar or grains or you know any kind of oil again but that needs to be a rare treat just like it was 50,000 years ago but if you do that every single day with snacks in between you're gonna suffer what do you think about constant glucose monitoring I think it's I think you I think that's gonna turn the tide on a lot of the recommendations that endocrinologist give their patients it's gonna turn the tide on the the the recommendations and advice that registers dietitians give their patients because currently patients will check their blood sugar once or twice a day and so I was pre-diabetic my a once II was six I was moving that way right but if you checked a fasting blood sugar on me back then it would have been normal and so unless you chancing why was your fasting you know I hadn't eaten overnight and so my blood sugar would come back down so you're saying you didn't have a physiological metabolic problem you had a purely diet based problem almost all of mine was was just died and self-inflicted dietary damage right and so there are millions of pre-diabetics living their life in them in the United States today who have no dia because once a year their doctor checked they only check the only marker of glucose and insulin metabolism that he'll check is a fasting blood sugar and if that's all you check your blind and so when you check a fasting blood sugar and it's 90 all you know is that that moment in time this person's blood Sugar's normal that's literally all that tells you it doesn't tell you anything about the past it doesn't tell you about their average but when you check an a1c and 7.4 oh my god you're a diabetic and if I hadn't checked that I wouldn't see I would have no damn idea and I would have said all everything looks great mr. bill y'all see you next year and that happens every single day in doctors offices across the country and across the world we check a fasting blood sugar it's normal or it's maybe a little bit high right a few points I had not a big deal we'll watch it we'll check it again next year and then you get to enjoy another year of damage being done to every tissue organ and cell of your body because any time your blood Sugar's high you're doing permanent damage they cannot be taken back explain that to me so here's why I think that people gravitate towards cholesterol they have this picture of there are pipes in my body and those pipes get clogged and get clogged with cholesterol don't eat cholesterol right right and that's like the visual representation is so easy yeah so why is elevated blood sugar problem what damage is it doing to the tissues so your body's made to run on a blood sugar from 60 to 99 and if you eat a veritable feast it might get up to 110 115 maybe 120 but that's about as high as a normal person with normal glucose metabolism back when I was 20 I could have eaten a dozen donuts and drank half a gallon of milk which I did on several occasions and my blood sugar an hour later would have been 110 Wow because back then I was so young and metabolically healthy my body could take it but if you can grab that glucose out of so I had I had some muscle in so my my insulin level would spike and it would put all the glucose out of the bloodstream very quickly now that's not to say that was healthy it just I was so young and metabolically resilient it's relieving why isn't why would you say that's not healthy then what is the is it an insulin problem the heart of your pancreas has to work the higher your insulin level is and so we know for without doubt that chronically high glucose levels in the blood damage every tissue every organ in your body but it looks like that chronically high insulin level also does damage and the damage look like like I don't so I've heard the analogy that having too high blood glucose you're literally burning the tissues but it's one of those like if I were on national TV I wouldn't want to repeat that something really know what I mean right it's actually much more complicated than that but that's a pretty good analogy but what happens is all every tissue in your body is fed by tiny blood vessels right called arterioles and then down into the capillary level and when the blood sugar gets high it causes inflammation and then the chronically high insulin is well is going to inflame those it's going to damage those and they'll start to close off and so if you close off one little tiny capillary in your retina you won't be able to tell that at all but if you close off one a day within 20 years you're gonna be going to the docs and doctor I can't I don't know something's wrong with my eyes I can't see good but and so you've got 20 years of damage it's too late at that point but the tiny blood vessels that's what's being damaged and so when you're when your retina or when you're bright if I part of your brain or when your penis loses its good blood supply it stops working and that's a problem and so for years we were taught that you know if you're type 2 diabetic you're just not making enough insulin turns out that's complete rubbish because we can check a lab called a c-peptide which tells me exactly how much insulin your pancreas is producing when your pancreas when the beta cells in your pancreas make insulin they make a pre pro insulin which is 2 insulins and a c-peptide stuck together and then when you excrete that the c-peptide breaks off and we currently say it doesn't do anything but think about that that's ridiculous it absolutely does thinks what we should be saying is we don't know what that does yet but it does something but insulin is constantly fluctuating in your system and so you can't check just a spot insulin because if you've just eaten if you haven't eaten all those things that if you're under stress if you're sick that all those things affect your insulin levels and so checking just a spot insulin doesn't really give you much information but I can your c-peptide levels stay pretty constant in your blood around the clock and so when I check a spot c-peptide and it's elevated that tells me without doubt your pancreas is having to work too hard to make insulin to put the blood sugar out of this bloodstream right and so where does it put it it pushes it out of the serum out of the bloodstream into the cells and so what we used to say is oh the the locking key mechanism of the insulin somehow it's gummed up your insulin can't let the blood sugar into the cell but jason fung a nephrologist said this very elegantly basically the cells are already full of sugar because of the orange juice and pancakes and bowl of fruit you have for breakfast right and so then when you come along and you have lunch you know two two sandwiches four slices of holy bread now you've got all this more glucose your insulin level spikes even more trying to push it into the cells the cells don't have any room they're full of glucose and so your blood sugar starts to stay high and that's the beginning of pre-diabetes and type 2 diabetes that's really interesting is it true that cells will actually reduce the number of insulin receptors that they have to begin basically saying handful and eventually they will kind of become insulin resistant but that is a start out that way and so like when I was 20 I could eat that dozen donuts and I a it would just push it all into the cells even though that wasn't good for the cells it still kept my blood sugar down it's really interesting in I am I literally have no idea the answer this question but it's putting the glucose into the cells because the cell is simply storing it or because the cell can actually use it as but will right then and there both yeah that's interesting which is why I'm guessing correct me if I'm wrong that exercising can actually wildly impacts or your likelihood of becoming diabetic are having diabetics in that's exactly right using and then actually actually doing some exercise before you eat can open the muscles and they can accept much more of the glucose out of your bloodstream and so a lot of people use that as a hack if they know they're going to grandmother's house or going to the buffet they'll work out right before they go or they'll do something that Tim Ferriss talks about in his book the 4-hour body though go to the bathroom and they'll do 20 50 100 bathroom stall squats and that opens up all your muscles and then you can pretty much eat whatever you want to I'm not recommending that by the way but that is that is a useful hack for some people if you know that you're gonna be in a social situation where you're gonna have to eat or you're gonna hurt granny's feelings or you know you're gonna look weird if you're just standing there drinking water while everybody else has a buffet plate you can sneak off to the bathroom and do your stall squats and then you you're not gonna spike your blood sugar and therefore you're not going to spike your insulin because the muscles are ready for that glucose that's really really interesting what are some of the biggest myths that are still being perpetuated today that really piss you off well there's a list of them so where do you want to start what subject let's start with vitamin D yeah sun exposure specifically right and so there's the vitamin D issue with with breastfeeding moms that then that's one of the very first lies and so let's talk about okay I'm an intern I've just graduated med school I'm an intern I'm on my obstetrics rotation and so the the chief resident who's in his third year of residency would say okay don't forget to write the vitamin D drops for the breastfeeding babies and I'm like what are you talking about he's like well humans don't make vitamin D in their breast milk and so immediately that struck me I'm like okay so for the last 200,000 years we've not became extinct because of rickets because human mothers don't produce vitamin D in their breast milk what and that was a media huge red flag for me but I didn't have time to research it at the time so I filed that away somewhere and then later after I just started my practice I researched that I looked into it and they found that if you give a breastfeeding mother 6060 400 international units of vitamin D a day guess what she does she makes all the vitamin D in her breast milk that a baby needs and so if the mothers deficient in vitamin D then she doesn't produce vitamin D under breast milk Wow but if you if she's getting the vitamin D that she would have gotten a hundred thousand years ago from being out outside all day and for meeting all kinds of grass-fed fats you know fatty meat the yolks from eggs any fat that she could get her hands on brains then she would be getting all this vitamin D and she would produce more than enough vitamin D for her baby and so absolutely women can make vitamin D in their breast milk if they are not deficient in vitamin D themselves which women are capable of doing if you'll feed them the ancestrally appropriate human diet and let them go play in the Sun yeah let's talk about the Sun so people obviously believe that the Sun causes skin cancer is a lot of interesting research coming out now talking about how if you double apply sunscreen you're more likely to get skin cancer than if you only apply it once what what's your thinking around the sunscreen and skin cancer yeah the research about that that that proves that sun exposure increases your risk of skin cancer is just atrocious and then when you think about this some of the research is done on donated foreskins so when we circumcise a baby that they would collect the foreskins and then they would do in vitro research on the foreskin skin with ultraviolet light and then they would make they would make recommendations for you as an adult human because you know foreskin doesn't get a lot of Sun anyway and then you're making global recommendations based on that kind of research that's the kind of research that we get this from but then when you think about this topic common sense wise and ancestrally we would be extinct as a species if sun exposure cause skin cancer and melanoma that rights that we're currently having your skin is built of something it's built of what you've eaten over the last nine to twelve months that's what your skin is made of right now is what you ate over the last year and so if you've eaten crap for the last year you want to bet me that you're at increased risk of skin cancer sure you are then there's also this thing called diagnosis drift that I talk about in the book as well when you take off a non cancerous skin lesion you get paid about this equivalent as you get paid for an office visit but if it's precancerous you get paid about three times that much if it's cancerous you get paid anywhere from ten to a hundred times as much to remove that guess who diagnoses it the doctor that's removing it now we've got human nature at play again right and so in so it's called diagnosis drift if you get paid more for it to be a more dangerous lesion than it's human nature guess what it's going to be a more dangerous lesion more often and so a lot of the increased cancer rate is diagnosis drift a lot of it is from our terrible diet that we're trying to build skin out of that's really interesting so what do you think is happening at the cellular level based on what I'm eating that would cause that particular cell to become cancerous like as it damaged fats like what so every cell membrane in your body has to have cholesterol to function properly and so when we tell everybody you got to eat less cholesterol and I'm gonna put you on this pillow to lower your cholesterol even lower and I won't you eat lots of whole grains and I want you to use canola oil because if you use bacon grease that's going to give you a heart attack right and so when you're using basically what amounts to artificial fat instead of real fats you're building inferior cell membranes and so every cell in your body is an increased risk of something bad and in the skin that could wind up being eczema can wind up being psoriasis it can wind up being one of the skin cancers oh that yeah that is crazy you are what you eat is such a powerful and it sounds like a truism but it is it's absolutely a fact let's talk about a true carnivore diet first of all what made you want to go that far and then what does a carnivore diet look like is it just i eat beef or is it organ meats and all that stuff so I had I had kind of come from standard American diet to primal paleo to low carb high healthy fat taquito and on keto I was eating a ton of fatty meat and a little bit of vegetables and and I enjoy green vegetables but then I kept you know I'm always researching I'm always looking and studying and I saw this excellent lecture by dr. Michael EADS he was talking about me and what they ate and Neanderthals were were exclusively carnivore unless they couldn't get meat and then they would eat whatever of course but if they could get fatty meat that's all they ate they didn't need anything else and about that same time Nisha and I my wife we checked our 23andme data and when he got it back I had more than the and earth all DNA than 97% of the population oh and so it was just kind of fortuitous they did though both those things happen at the same time and I was like you normally try for a month what book could it hurt and so at the end of that month I felt so much better I'd lost another 4 pounds people were saying what do you you look better you've lost weight like they can see the the even-even from quito to carnivore my inflammation was even better I felt better I used to have terrible heartburn every day every day even with paleo primal when I went keto was about 80% better but then when a carnivore I have zero heartburn ever break down carnivore for me are you eating chicken I don't eat much chicken my carnivore is lots of fatty red meat mostly beef I I eat eggs mostly the yolks I'll leave butter or ghee some full fat cheese salt pepper and some spices that's that's the entirety of my diet and that may sound boring but I have yet to sit down and go damn it another ribeye it just doesn't happen now for me that sounds amazing right you're gonna die of heart attack right right right and so a my cholesterol currently is 350 my LDL Oster all is 250 and I'm not worried about those at all because more and more the research that's been shelved and put in the basements and put in the attics about lipid and you know cholesterol and LDL now that all the research is becoming available and people are doing review articles and looking at all the data it actually looks like the higher your total cholesterol is the longer you live and so the entire model has been upside down this entire time so I'm not worried about my total cholesterol or my LDL at all but yeah my HDL is very high which is my good protective cholesterol my triglycerides are very low my hemoglobin a1c or my 3-month blood sugar average is the lowest it's been since I've been checking it all my inflammatory markers are back to normal I feel great so tell me where's the risk in that okay that's super interesting walk me through what parts of the the cholesterol numbers people should be caring about not caring about because so in my own life I went through a period that lasted probably for about two and a half years where I was essentially doing rabbit starvation right so I was eating basically chicken breast broccoli nothing on it no oil nothing I know amazing I felt terrible exactly absolutely horrifying right but damn I was lean you know and it was amazing but yeah I was I had joint pain just was like in pure insanity yeah and then I because I heard that ketogenic spa see had some cancer prevention stuff I tried it and it was like it was like taking a drug it was so anti-inflammatory on my joints that I was like well I'm never going back to rabid starvation that was crazy right but my cholesterol levels were so low when I was doing the rabbit starvation and I thought that was a good thing that I was super amped I felt bulletproof thought I was gonna live forever then when I started doing ketogenic s– my numbers went significantly up and my doctor was like we have to get you on Lipitor and I was like you must be joking I've got two guns Tom I've got a 12-gauge shotgun and I've got a BB gun you're gonna get shot with one of them which one do you pick take to be beyond the fact that that's it and that's that makes good sense and so my contention is is that an elevated a1c an elevated c-peptide which tells me your blood sugar and serum insulin levels are always high a very low HDL in a very high triglyceride level those four tests those that's the shotgun if you're LD is 250-300 that might might be a BB gun but the the even the research on levels that HEIs completely inconclusive if your doctor says oh you have a high total cholesterol you need to be on lipitor you need to find a new doctor because he's at least 10 years behind in his reading okay now if he talks about LDL then he's at least current but still when you look at the research and its totality it's not a risk factor it might be a BB gun but it's not the shotgun that that high blood sugar high insulin low HDL and high triglycerides are that's the shotgun that's gonna kill you hmm it's a really interesting so talk about salt blood pressure seems to be a lot of misunderstanding around salt yeah and so human beings and all mammals really love salt and crave salt but in human beings we consider this a character flaw if you if you like salt and actually eat it something wrong with you you're not you're not very bright or you just don't care about your health but what about the deer in the wild that will walk four miles to lick a certain mud or a certain rock that has a high salt content are they are they gluttons as well or they just don't care about their health I doubt that's true I think they're doing that for their health the blood of mammals is very salty okay if you if you if I check a basic metabolic panel on you your sodium level is going to be one one thirty five your chloride level is going to be 110 right your magnesium which we all want to talk about it's going to be two point five and your potassium that we all want to talk about it's going to be three you see the difference in those levels your blood is meant to be very very salty if you have normal kidney function then you effectively can't overdose on salt your kidneys can excrete so much sodium and chloride that it's ridiculous okay your kidneys are not gonna let you keep too much salt in your body even the research in people with with late end-stage heart failure they do worse on a salt restricted diet and you think that's the very people you so they should really be restricting their salt and doctors tell them to do that every day but when you actually look the research they do worse on a low salt diet than a normal salt diet if you start to mess with the salt and try to lower that immediately your cell membranes stop functioning properly because the sodium and the chloride are supremely important for proper cell function if you are limiting your salt you're limiting your performance and there are actually athletes who instead of carb loading they'll salt load before they workout but and it increases their their endurance and their strength by 1015 percent I've never heard them do it speak really interesting I'm a long time salt junkie I used to eat rock salt if you've ever had that I'm guessing where you grew up you have sure you see rock salt I got nosebleeds there's just something about salt one more thing what do you think the carnivore diet is doing to your microbiome like oh there is there anything to think through there in terms of the microbiota that are feeding off of greens and I think that's a huge hugely important question I think the the gut microbiome is a completely unknown entity but what I do know is that the multiple carnivores that I correspond with have no problem in the bathroom there's no problem with constipation with diarrhea everything works like a charm there's no problem with that and so all their markers are good and so we go back to that again they feel great and they look great in the lab so where's the problem right now I'm not at all discounting the gut microbiota I think it's a huge deal and so I think that probably in starvation situations when we're having to live on you know grass and and and grains and stuff I think that we can use the gut microbiome to help make fatty acids and to help make other nutrients but when you're feeding the body wood it needs which is mostly fatty meat and maybe a little bit of edge you don't even really need the gut bacteria to do that work for you because you got it very very interesting before I asked my last question tell these guys where they can find you online so I do most of my work on YouTube I have a few youtube videos you can check if you just search dr. ken berry you'll find me and then I do a lot of work on Facebook and Instagram the same search ought to turn me up love it alright my last question what's the one thing that people can do that will have the biggest impact on their health the one thing you can do is to realize that you are literally made of what you eat and then to go back in time mentally and think what did we eat 10,000 years ago what do you eat a hundred thousand years ago because your DNA has not changed at all since then you are the same creature that used to roam the Savannah 100 thousand years ago you are the same genetic animal you have to eat the food that they ate or you will suffer and when you start eating processed grains and processed sugars and processed vegetable oils at the amounts that we currently eat that's going to lead to nothing but chronic disease amazing thank you so much waiting on the show that was incredible all right all right guys the most fascinating thing about this man is he is blunt as all hell when you dive in his world you're gonna realize very quickly that he's not pulling punches he wants people to question everything he wants you being your own advocate for your health diving in he talks a lot about building a bottom-up approaches looking at what's going on in the world seeing how people are reacting seeing what people are talking about in the age of the internet do not wait for the medical establishment to hand you something down chances are that it's outdated or it was influenced by something else so really being a part of figuring things out on your own and researching and learning that stuff is the way to go and what I love about him and it's why it was one of the very first things we talked about is never afraid to admit if he realized he was wrong about something to say he said many times oh I used to you know tell people to do this and and I was wrong about that and I'm really sorry and now this is my current thinking and anybody that's willing to evolve their thinking like that and change the way that they approach something that's somebody that I feel that I can trust because they're not hemmed in by their own Dogma by the things that they've said which i think is a major trap so he is a very fresh voice in the space I encourage you guys to go hear what he has to say check it out and like he would do with anybody else by all means question what he's saying I think he's questioning what he's saying so that you can really build a robust model that actually works in the real-world and that's why I'm so intrigued all right if you haven't already be sure to subscribe and until next time my friends be legendary take care thank you sir my amazing hey impactive as' I hope you loved that episode and now I want to take a moment to introduce you to our awesome friends at athletic greens athletic greens is one of the best all in one whole food supplements out there and as I hope you guys know from watching the show you need to fuel yourself with the right nutrition if you want to be at your best every day and I'm talking cognitively psychologically physically all of it requires absolutely top-notch nutrition and as you guys know to me the gold standard is without question eating a whole food diet whenever humanly possible but making that a daily reality is easier said than done and sometimes you need another great option to getting your daily nutrition and that is where athletic greens comes in and I think they deliver a product that is absolutely kick-ass I love that these guys make it easy and efficient for you to get your daily nutrition when whole food isn't an option one scoop of this stuff has 75 high-quality whole food sourced ingredients and the antioxidant equivalent of twelve servings of fruits and vegetables it is easy to tell how amazing this stuff is by the number of people that recommend this and I'm talking high-caliber people in fact a bunch of impact Theory alums recommend athletic greens including Tim Ferriss Peter Diamandis and my close survey so I want you guys to try this for yourself and to that end we have a very special offer for you you're going to get 20 free travel packs and a free mixer bottle with your first purchase that way you guys are going to be able to stay on top of your health at home and on the road just click on the link in the description below or visit atletic greens.com forward slash health theory to give it a try that's athletic greens calm /l theory or click on the link in the description below and try that special offer out today enjoy my friends and be legendary thank you guys so much for watching and being a part of this community if you haven't already be sure to subscribe you're going to get weekly videos on building a growth mindset cultivating grit and locking your full potential


  1. DLive DLive DLive DLive

  2. get dr. ROBERT MORSE on

  3. I'm going to disagree with Dr Berry on one point, the relevance of Neanderthal ancestry. I think he is making the same mistake that the people who introduced the "law of hypo descent" made.

    While Dr Berry might be high Neanderthal content, he's still under 400 Neanderthal variants. About 40% of the Neanderthal genome altogether has survived in the modern population, but each of us only has between about 1 and 4%. So the genes that Dr Berry inherited might have nothing to do with digestion and the ability to digest plants.

    I would argue that his overall modern human ancestry is much more relevant. If his more recent ancestors lived near the Arctic circle (which, as I understand it, they did), then he is likely to need animal based foods.

  4. Thank you thank you thank you both!!!

  5. But for the majority of us who do not have such a huge percentage of Neanderthal genetic make up, would the carnivore diet be as beneficial as it is for Dr Berry? (Who I love, btw)

  6. You gotta stop mentioning honey buns Dr. Berry because you're killing me! Lol, I crave them still. I started keto on 2/1 and I've I lost 60lbs in 4.5 months, crazy…..not even working out at all yet since I wanted to get a good amount of weight off so my joints don't hurt while excersing. I'm 6ft, started at 278lbs down to 218lb as of today…..amazed. I want to lose another 40lbs or so. I had just ran across keto posts one day on Reddit, thought it looked doable….yep, it is! Plan to live like this as long as my health remains good.

  7. I liked this article. I am not sure which part of the USA he hails from but he has a cool accent. Love it.

  8. Thank you so much Dr. Berry, I have seen a few of your videos and have found them so helpfuI. They are all so easy to understand, put in laymans terms. I wish we had more doctors like you here in the UK.

  9. Why haven't you said anything about caloric intake, and you just focus on certain macro's?

    CICO, people CICO ffs, unless you have a hormonal disease.

  10. Miss the days of being able to whatever we wanted and not really gain any weight

  11. Am I the only one who questions the smooth talk of dr berry? Cholesterol are going to clog his arteries and kill him if he continues the carnivore diet. He admits his cholesterol numbers are off the charts!! Like I say to all the keto diet people, do you really want to live like a caveman who had life expectancy of 40 with death of heart attack??

  12. If you have a good doctor, he will tell you the truth. Mine told me go ORGANIC. Grass fed, hormone free meats, organically grown vegetables and fruits. No processed foods. If it comes in a box, a bag, a can, a wrapper or a jar avoid it like the plague.

  13. This guy is gold tyx ken

  14. There is no reasoning or common sense in the carnivore diet what so ever.. Just misinterpreted study after study… As far as nature is concerned we are monkeys and there is no group of monkeys on the planet that eat more then small quantities of meat. Completely asinine!!

  15. I have an autoimmune disorder. Low carb has always been a way to lower the pain. Keto made me free of half my pain meds, my fitness is up because I can handle the reaction to exercise and I've lost 15 lbs. I don't care if he has a license. He's helped me more than all the licensed specialists I've seen. Except my cardiologist. I see him once a year to hear from that I'm absolutely free of heart disease in my mid 50s. High cholesterol and triglycerides my entire life not withstanding. I'm so low carb I'm almost carnivore already.

  16. That progress bar with the subjects below is worth a subscription. Hopefully it's still there now in 2019.

  17. Annoying how he misuses the word penultimate.

  18. I had a doc tell me I had high cholesterol and should be on statins. He was shocked when I told him that they were dangerous. I never went back to him.

  19. GREAT VIDEO!! Dr Berry is so real and not preaching…I absolutely loved and shared this with my sickly friends who are struggling because of what they eat and what their Drs are telling them

  20. 🤔 I’m doing this for 30 days and see what happens, everything he’s saying is happening to me i have nothing to lose… I work out so much and I’m always tired can’t wait to try the Keto

  21. I have an Asperger's-like obsession with the horizontal topic bar and am probably missing the entire message of the video. Can't wait for the next topic to illuminate.

  22. I've had a cholecystectomy, I cannot digest red meat, or my system cannot break it down, causing digestive problems. 1. What's the problem 2. Am I blaming my cholecystectomy incorrectly?

  23. Great diet if you want to contract STOMACH OR BOWEL CANCER………also absolutely no attempt to consider the environmental or animal welfare issues

  24. Keto is basically no sugar! Sugar is killing Americans! Sugar is worse than any drug known to man. If we eliminate sugar in any form other than fresh fruits and veggies it would be life changing

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