John Keating (Vegan Health Fitness) Is No Longer ….



I don't have time to make a yes name for you but this is a this is a surprise this is John Keating everybody vegan health fitness I'll be gone drew it's going good dude what we're Church where'd your channel leave off man you were like over 15,000 yeah yeah had 31,000 31k yeah damn yeah that's I just I don't I just got bored of making videos partly for other reasons as well where are the reasons like get into interesting interesting we may get into that well guys for those of you don't know this is John Keating of vegan health fitness YouTube channel he talks about making gains track stuff lifting weights John and I have spoken one time before on skype I believe back in today like four years ago yeah and I think what are we talked about back then like weren't we talk I was probably struggling to make gains and we were both kind of talking about that protein we're talking about needing extra protein to build muscle in a vegan diet yeah and that was a long time ago like yeah yeah well I was like year 1v and that was a long time ago so what what is it what ended up happening with all that so we'd probably decided that we need more protein yep and like I think yeah you were just trying to build muscle and that's about it but yeah I can't really remember the conversation like he says like four years ago but yeah I kind of I mean you didn't make him any videos in between then did you nope I was pretty much I was pretty much like I made like two videos while I was in Hawaii when I was there for two years like I kind of went to Hawaii with the idea that I would sort of expand upon my youtube career like I just bought a new camera yeah I thought I was gonna be going big time with this thing and then I just wasn't very motivated when I was there shockingly yep and you know there's of course there's many reasons for that as well yeah yeah so I'm just gonna come on here and tell you guys that I'm no longer vegan Oh what what yeah you already know I already sent you a message okay I already knew no explicit bras guys yeah vegan health fitness is not fucking vegan anymore yeah okay okay so don't listen I'll give you a little break I'll give you a brief rundown so actually don't funnily enough it you know I've only been eating meat for a couple of months now but I still can't remember why I actually made decision in the end but basically it was a combination of I saw some videos near some expedient videos just hanging around on YouTube i watch a lot of YouTube and yeah I just um I think I saw some bobby videos maybe yeah Bobby's perspective obviously you know who he is but and probably everyone here probably knows who is as well by nature huh Bobby will getcha yes and yeah he just had a few it was videos I was actually afraid to click on them because I was like well why just come up with my fade and what why am I getting so many like ex vegan you know things to YouTube must know and so anyway I just 30 days previous to eating meat I realized that well I started taking some supplements so ones that I thought were missing in a vegan diet you know like your carnosine you're a taurine creatine just various things you can find it in meat that you know you wouldn't necessarily get you know or make enough of in your body so I thought look I'll give it a try and see what you know see if it makes a difference finally enough that none of that made a difference so I don't know if is the fact it's in supplement form you know supplements are not well absorbed most of the time like for instance creatine it's not well absorbed compared to mate aiding mate by the way you had a health a formal health background right like some some education and this didn't you yeah yeah I did a bit of nutrition at University as well not too much like when I went there most people were they weren't that interested in nutrition like they and they weren't that great at it maybe I just didn't stick at it long enough but yeah it just didn't seem like the right thing to do at the time and it was also racking up debt and as you know it's very expensive to go to university and not really get much out of it yeah sure so yeah where was I so I did the 30 day of supplements didn't work you know I saw some some videos on YouTube and you know there X billion ones and I was like you know a few things of just I was just looking back at how the six years I had been vegan had gone and I realized I haven't hadn't gained much muscle despite going to gym quite consistently and I noticed but I you know like you've probably said in your videos I expected to make a little bit of a loss going vegan like it wasn't as good games but I was okay with that but you know when I look over there six years and really gain too much despite being consistent and you know if that was the only thing I probably wouldn't care but what I also noticed is like fungal infections I was getting fungal infections and my skin wasn't as it didn't feel right I feel kind of tough and it wasn't smooth and I've always had kind of you know issues with my skin but I just notice are getting drier and I've never had dry skin like I always had oily oily skin and yeah it's getting drier like I said the fun infections were constant now and my skin was also very sensitive as well like I'd get on the edge of my arm here it'll be all sensitive and I couldn't even do deadlifts towards the end because my shins were too sensitive to actually do a new deadlift to pull the bar close to my shins and yeah just various things that I just noticed they were small like I didn't have any large serious issues but I just noticed all these similarities with the kind of deterioration that I saw in other vegans and also the digestion it wasn't like I didn't have particularly bad digestion but I noticed that I was becoming intolerant to like almost every single food it got to the point where I was eating like very specific foods you know like your box was getting smaller yeah yeah this has why you couldn't even refer those any was getting yes yeah the variety was it was much less yes so yeah just lots of different things and and I was like I will give this a go we'll see what it's like and I went to the supermarket up the road and got some I think it was tuna there's a 400 gram can of tuna and I think I got two of those and I had one of those just before I went to bed this is like late at night you know like one of those late at night decisions you make like this is your first time ever consuming any animal foods just like fuck and I'm getting tuna from the can yeah I'm just getting canned tuna I'm just gonna that's like desperation that's like a desperation move right there that's crazy right I I wouldn't call it desperation but I'm not saying it's bad I'm just saying like for you to make that decision for that to be your first meal like you must have been been in a desperate Oh mindset yeah you know like in in relay yeah I'm sorry I wouldn't use it were desperate but it was um I did it in the moment yeah I I was like I have to try this right now and I just went straight to the supermarket I'm like this if there's something to this I'm gonna be real pissed and of course I was in the end but so yeah I brought it back home and sitting right here and I yeah I finished about you know it looked a bit disgusting to be honest like first when you're looking at it you're like ah it's like fish and I don't really want to eat it and then anyway I had it and yeah just probably 10 minutes after I felt like a kind of warm sensation and a bit of euphoria as well and I was like these like there has to be something to this as soon as I knew my think my body knew and I'm not a very like you know hippy whippy kind of person but I think my body knew that this is what I wanted this is what I needed and it just yeah it gave me all the signals that yes you should eat more of this food and yeah it's like the next day I went to gym I was a lot stronger like a lot so I'm not even sure what it was because like I said I'd been taking crazy and I never stopped taking creatine so it wasn't the creatine I don't know if it was like electrolytes or something but it just next day was like five ten kilos you know maybe it's a bit Percy Bo but it seemed bit more than placebo even a day in so a lot of a lot of us who've transitioned over from veganism back to just eating a big portion of animal foods likes tuna or steak or whatever we all have this first experience that you're describing whether it's directly after the meal or in the middle of the night or whatever mm but do you think that do you think that vegans who have an issue with us saying this like they could easily prove this to themselves by trying one meal or like a couple meat Mike we're not saying it was gonna happen every single one of you your first time you try it animal foods but like you will know within a few days if this is doing anything for you it's not like veganism where it's like you have like a fruit smoothie and you're you know what I mean like it there's there's a very distinct obvious feeling and I think the big issue with veganism is that because it's based on like that ethical foundation where it's like can't try even a bite of meat yeah you're boxing yourself in without even really knowing it and you guys claim to be scientific but really like John ate a can of tuna which in terms of like the hierarchy of quality of food is way down the chain and he still got positive reinforcement from his body that's how powerful this stuff is so yeah go on I mean tunas not even high and fat either it's like it's really really low sad so it you know you couldn't even really say it was the fat content at the food it was it was something something in it and and the funny thing is like I've had a whole paradigm shift with with dating made again it's um you know meat is a whole food dr. Greger always goes on about you know plants being whole foods that they have very complex interactions with your body but so does meat meat has a very meat is a very complex whole food that we don't know much about like you know he talks about all these different you know various phytochemicals in plants that all have these little actions in the body where you know whether it's lowers cholesterol or lowers blood pressure or whatever interferes with whatever the you know meat has a similar effects you know it has effects in the body that numerous and that we don't even know about yet and one of the reasons they I really ended up doing it in the end is because I just think veganism is an experiment and we actually don't know what the consequences are yet and in the long term and obviously you guys have said that plenty of times but yeah I firmly believe that it's an experiment and that we don't know enough about nutrition to categorically say that a vegan diet is sufficient at any stage of life and I think you know the any kind of body you know institution that has it in writing that it's you know being able to be done for every human is just I think a bit negligent definitely just you know I mean there's some there's some obvious ones you look at like you know they only found out they only made choline a reference a dietary intake in 2016 it's like we know you're citing stuff if you're gonna put something on the reference list in 2016 what let me that's only three years ago yeah how do we not know about this why do we don't know that we needed this yeah Sanka this is a vegan troll and I'm going to actually ban her right now so she says another one unfortunately who didn't make the connection in regards to you so what do you say like what did you ever make a ethical connection a whilst vegan or do you think that right let's say yeah definitely yeah I mean check my channel I'm I did activism down at Colin straight here in Melbourne in the city and I did it pretty much every week for a few months on Saturdays so I go to go out to talk to people about veganism and all kinds of stuff so definitely an ethical vegan as well I will say like I went into veganism for health initially but you know like everyone says you stay vegan because you know their ethical argument so but yeah it's the thing is yes now that I think about it it's more like if you help this suffering then I think self-preservation is more important than the animals and and you can say you know that animals are equal and you know everyone's equal but you know yeah that's it that's a very it's a very political argument but it also has a relates to veganism it's yeah it's just not true it's like we would never treat an animal or even someone else as kind of even vegans wouldn't treat other people or animals above themselves they wouldn't put the put the animals before themselves because they would they would say you know if they were an island know the island example yeah when you know they say oh you know the joke is that the media asks what would you do on an island does it deserted island well yeah you would eat the animal so therefore you do believe in some way that self-preservation is important and look and I want to point out too by the way in terms of that Island example here's the other funny thing about it vegans can say well I try and eat you know I try and forge food first or I try and plant food first but here's that here's the catch dumbass vegans because they these people have no idea about actually living in nature or growing their own food if they did manage to plant their own fruit food forest guess what the animals are coming for your damn food I'm gonna do you can make a choice you're gonna have to mate well yes even let's say they even assemble across a crop a field of crops already there that they just had harvest by the time came magically which wouldn't happen in the first place it's just the point is is that they're gonna have to decide sooner or later that it's either them or the animals because at some point you have to defend yourself against those pigs that will come eat all of your crops overnight so what are you gonna do then you're gonna say I'll let the pigs eat my crops because a defenseless vegan bit of address you today yeah with the you know not defending things not defending things you believe in and not defending your own preservation like it's all about caring for other people or other things or it's like maybe you should focus on yourself a little bit yes pay attention to your health because you know you're gonna be crazy you're gonna be not mentally stable or anything like that you're gonna hold on job but yeah that's Jenny a bit off topic ago how long were you vegan by the way how long yeah she's six years did you ever meet any of these high high up vegans any like dear Australia so you ever meet freely or during write or anybody like this yeah mid during errata I met during writer I didn't meet freely unfortunately I wanted to meet her but is it I met Holly in 2014 at the Thai profess so I was there and I don't know it I didn't have many interactions with him he was just he's alright he's not too bad he's just a bit like I don't know he just seemed like any other person he's pretty quiet in person he's not very uh that's how he's on high seems pretty chilly that's how he is on live streams he's pretty she's pretty chill he's not like yeah yeah I'm in the live stream the other day with with who was it was it was it primal edge or something yeah yeah we did one recently and then we also did one with primal edge yeah primal is a fucking crazy holy shit if you can get wild for sure he was um he was digging into during rot it like you wouldn't believe yeah that was on my on our stream together yeah he was way he said he waited 10 years to have that opportunity to say those things to – during riders so he took over that stream and he he came to me afterwards I dude I'm sorry about that I was like God don't worry about it as it was fine because basically I made a video talking hell as shit on during rider he saw it he called me out in the comments he said let's do uh let's do a stream or whatever pussy and I said okay let's go I'm fucking scared yeah I did want to mention so I've caught a live stream last night on Instagram this guy G something his name is like gentle vegan or something like that he's on Instagram he has a podcast with this chick down in Southern California he's an activist dude he looks like a goddamn vegan he's all sucked out looks like a vegan you know spot the vegan this guy anyway so he's doing a debate with this guy who clearly is trolling him on his Instagram there's like 50 something people watching and I just happened to be in this chat at this moment and I was like I heard them I just was overhearing them talk and ruiji was telling this guy as if the argument is over for health like he's like you know if you want to be not vegan or if you want to argue vegans on the terms of ethics or if you want to argue vegans on the terms of environmentalism that's one thing but in terms of health it's a case closed you you are not eating for you cannot say that eating animals for health reasons is even valid at all anymore today and I feel like he's in the two to three year old mindset where he's like I started the to two or three years ago mindset where veganism was sort of this like open-and-shut case like this is the healthiest way and then all of a sudden we saw this experiment unfold online with thousands and thousands of people who have fallen off the vegan bandwagon around years or four or five six around that timeframe because this is about the timeframe where you know reality sets in the deficiency start to set in whatever happens starts to set in and basically he's trying to say that you know health is not a valid reason because we've got that figured out and meanwhile you look at this guy and you're like you look like the deteriorated vegans that we're talking about that we're trying to avoid looking like you know what this guy has even vegan for that long well it's funny like you know the the Siri advice is that you know the vegans are pale skinny and and and whatnot and it's kind of true like you know like with every stereotype it's fucking true yeah I'm visit this an essence of truth to to it yeah so it's yeah definitely I saw with this all right this is the guy smart the vegan guys spot the vegan does that look like a vegan face to you yeah it does yeah and the reason I say shit like this and I don't mind being like basically offensive hey it's true happy Mother's Day video right you're walking just so so arrogant so pompous everyone booed my boo mark my Chang yeah guys voice and everything like kinda just talking like that vegan activist it's like not one vegan activist not one looks looks good hmm you know there's there's not one seat like John Venus is not a vegan activist Derek's internet isn't a vegan activist these guys are full-time gym rats too even while they look great but to maintain it you know these guys that are traveling around and talking to people in the streets they look like they're vegans oh look at look at look at this well I was a very prominent commentary on people sorry I said it again I was around a lot of the ethical vegans like in fact I'm probably gonna get a bit of flak in real life for this I'm sure I'm sure but but um and not not so not for the comments I'm just about to make I'm talking about just overall um yeah it's the vegans that I hung out with you know there was a couple of them that were into I would say health and kind of fitness more fitness side of things but yeah definitely a lot of people in the group fit the stereotype of of the vegan I would say but it also veganism also a track especially in the early days it attracted a lot of the same people which you were talking about they're 16 personalities tests um if you look at it the the Bayesian groups they do the sixteen personality test polls and they usually come out infp and ENFP you're getting all the same kind of people yes that that are becoming vegan that you know there's a reason that those are the people who became vegans because they're obvious of a particular personality type that would do that so yeah you're going to get a lot of similarities in that regard as well so yeah and sometimes it may be a bit hard to kind of isolate whether it's you know diet or just that the personality that the diet attracts you know but yeah you it sorry you are right about the ENFP by the way there we noticed that in hawaii cuz we made everybody take that and there is so many people someone said to look up James ass P he looks he looks good so we'll take a look at him just to be fair we that's what we do on this channel guys we want to be legit I love it huh I was looking at this picture I was looking at this picture and I said Tammy looks young she looks pretty buff and look what he's eating this is back in the meat days yeah yeah he looked good back then didn't he yeah look at this shit and it's so funny like I saw this picture I was like wow James asked me you've impressive and he's eating a damn lovely right let's look at a recent a recent video though yeah all of your work has basically come down to L inclusion there's no amount and really seen much there I guess this picture how old is this it's always hard to look at you know yeah he looks good he looks healthy looks buff he's you know he's got a good shape yeah you know I don't think many people are gonna look at that and they gonna be like oh he's really on health I think most people would just say yeah it looks pretty good to me somebody said he looks for way worse now paling daunt see that's the thing too is a lot of people are using very old photos of themselves all the time this happens yeah likey okay so there's a few things and he travels a lot so yeah yeah he may not have the best diet anymore so that could explain why he's probably not as lame but then again I haven't really seen any vegans that are kind of on his level maybe in that in that crab eating video a crab eating picture there but you know maybe simnet he's kind of like that Lane but not not many vegans of that Lane and buff he's starting to look a little like soft around the edges here yeah oh yeah I definitely noticed getting softer that's for sure like your softer Lou's got the soy the soy the vegan activist oh okay we got here god this is a good shower that's a good shot right there that's the updated version hahaha his arms looks more yep that's that's where it is right there oh yeah and weeks ago I mean it's hard to tell with all that stuff I mean it I went over some of these stuff with my brother he you know he's never been big you know a thing like that and I said you know what do you think of this because I was having a look at that you know the vegan deterioration Channel and hmm what not and I was also talking to another one of my friends as well and yeah got them to have a look and they were like you know it could be this it could be this could be that could be this so you know it's yeah but I mean you know the symptoms the symptoms are just are not that important like so there's no thing that there's a game that the vegans like to play it's a it's another misdirection that they use which is called name the nutrient have you heard of this name the nutrient but that yeah not even heard of it but I can imagine that that's very easy to debunk well what they like to do is they like to go you know they don't they don't know anything about nutrition but then they they go up to another lay person they say name the nutrient that we're not getting on the vegan diet and of course a regular person is gonna have a hard time answering that question the vegan is all righteous and vindicated but the point is is that we don't need to know the nutrient it doesn't matter like like I said or I thought I was walking today and I thought of this we we know what caught we know what causes Down syndrome we know what it means to have Down syndrome right like mental retardation we know what this is but knowing what it is can't fucking stop it from happening it does it a matter that we have this information that we we have the science around it we're at the brain autopsies it's it doesn't matter it's the final result and the prevention of that result that matters we know that eating 100% vegan for five plus years is probably going to do this to you it's definitely gonna do it to you after 10 years so we're you know where's your where's your time clock you just don't know when it's gonna happen to you and there's all these people again if there was no ethical portion to veganism it would have fallen a long time ago this would just be the diet it was just yeah I would just be like I this just definitely doesn't work we're over it you know I mean yeah yeah for sure like I don't think I would have continued if it was just a diet no no way like because it was just too many yeah there's the social things and the I would say even health issues just during that I wouldn't have liked for instance that getting enough protein in you know if you try to get enough protein at a vegan diet though is like a lot of fiber or carbs or a lot of carbs or proton how that yeah exactly kind of hard to avoid so yeah it I would have changed that if it was just a diet I would have just changed up by myself well somebody in the channel said five years vegan and proud here's the key is 20 to 25% of healthy fats that's why many vegans fail long-term well the thing is that vegans can't even agree what the healthy fat is within the vegan diet yeah people are people wouldn't know what they're getting anyway like if you look at the different types of fats of which there are hundreds yeah or possibly even thousands but let's just talk about the main ones like the monounsaturated the saturated and then poly like most people won't even know what proportions they're getting of those things and you know it seems that you mainly want to if in terms of energy you really want to be getting it from saturated and monounsaturated fats not from poly so you know people would have to really monitor what oils and what fast in omega-6 situation as well on top of that like yeah exactly oh yeah the immediate six just goes crazy when you begin like I I literally I didn't even try and reduce that because it would just be practically impossible to actually do in practice it's like it just I did to a certain extent like I would have I would kind of check for on a minute just to see that and this is what I'm talking about with the kind of limited food selection as well is where you try and get all these things kind of in balance you know to do it right to quote unquote do it right and yeah it just it just whittled down all your food options and and that yeah and that's the thing like most people wouldn't even be considering any of these things like your average vegan they won't even know how many major threes they're getting they won't know that DHA and EPA is not the same ala yeah it's not the same as the precursor they're not good like they're not gonna know there's like Emma's stuff yesterday Nana's me they'll tell me that all you didn't do it right and you didn't this particular vitamin or whatever it's just it's crazy it's absolutely crazy well that's why I say they resort to these little stupid questions these little like these little quips you know these little gotchas that's what they do name the nutrient and you're like well I don't know and then they're and then they go okay yeah I thought so you know there's nothing that I can't get on the Vita it's like well actually there are nutrients that we definitely can't get and then there's also questionably absorbable nutrients which you guys don't even talk about because I think you brought up earlier regarding the absorbability of I think we're talking about the protein is I've heard estimates as low as 30% absorbability of certain plant proteins so vegans are willing to accept 85% is generally the accepted like a protein was a similar melody what the hell what's going on one bread the production rate assimilation value of protein compared to animal foods they say it's about 85% so there's people saying it's as low as 30% so imagine that you you think you're gaining 150 grams of protein you're only getting 30% of that well yeah that's the thing and and and like I said that's another thing that people don't know about so if you that there's a PD cast it's basically their protein digestibility amino acids cool and they've also got a biological value of protein as well and if you might logical value is what I've seen but it's very low the biological value is what I've seen it's very low yeah so if you look through all the different plant proteins you'll see that yeah they range anywhere from 0.3 to you know all the way up to 0.95 or something or 1.0 I saw what what scale we're talking about but you know people the point is people don't know whether what they're eating most of the time like yeah if I've seen lots of vegan posts that say ah a good source of protein is almonds and peanut butter and whatnot but pretty sure they have biological values of less than 0.5 or around 0.5 so so but is that the person's responsibility or do you think that that's a worthwhile like I'm with you I totally agree with it people don't really know what what they're putting into their bodies to begin with they have like a relative idea of what's healthy and what's not healthy but it's super questionable but do you think it is our responsibility to understand that because obviously there's ways to eat meat incorrectly yeah and mix it with carbs and fats and carbs at the same time there's this suboptimal ways to do that however if you are consuming animal foods pretty much everybody's in agreement that you're not going to be going vitamin and mineral deficient like there's no sign of that there's no sign of deficiency on a meat supplement supplemented diet well yeah I mean the thing is yeah there's responsibility on anyone's behalf to actually look after the health and like and and after the nutrients that they getting like for instance you could I guess you could design a deficient diet on me yeah you could have very lean mates and not get the fat soluble vitamins go out of your way though sorry like you'd have to go out of your way pretty much to consume in deficient meat diet like you'd have to design it that way whereas like with veganism you're designing it to try an idea deficient and it's still very difficult to achieve that yeah exactly no no no it's much easy to get a full spectrum of nutrients just eating animal foods compared to plant foods like and the reason I think is because well not only because it actually fits our physiology better but it'll and it's more absorbable but also because traditionally like we've brought up been brought up in a certain way so we know how to generally eat and I'm not saying we're particularly good at it these days because we've lost a lot of those traditions but we we generally know or we generally have an idea of what we should eat from our parents and from you know they perish go from their grandparents and we all ate so we kind of know what the deal is we know what a meal looks like a meal but most people looks like a portion of meat a portion of carbs or whatever and a portion of plants right for the most part and you know it used to be even less so plants and moreso animal foods but yeah we still had a kind of idea of what we should eat and so when you have this kind of vegan experiment and no one knows what to do of course you're going to have all these different people starting all these different kinds of diets because on vegan you don't actually don't know you're eating it's just it's it's chaos it's like yeah you just don't know there's no traditions the veganism so of course it's going to end up with people not knowing what to do and especially you know younger people or people are just not willing to research things yeah I'm gonna have any support from their parents or then I can have any support from friends and family in terms of not not even just like people telling them what to eat in terms of you know this food as this nutrient and this other food of this nutrient more so late you know just meal design in general just that's you know people just have to guess like what a vegan meal looks like and and and a lot of the time it's it's like ah we're gonna have a smoothie you know like and that's not that that's a very new thing that's not a traditional food item is a smoothie like you know I just don't a regular basis so there's a lot of new things in veganism and it's not necessarily good yeah well with with vegan food like that's the other thing too and something that chase said earlier in the stream the vegan guy who's coming out ten years of veganism doing the carnivore experiment he says like the way he normally eats every meal is that he eats till his stomach is so full that it basically tells him like I can't eat any more it's not like he's satisfied it's his stomach is like we're done because I literally cannot fit another bite of food and the funny thing about that is I used to eat that way to for dinner especially with my cooked dinner you know but it was like if I had a bowl of food and I was stuffed full but there was still food left in the bowl I could let that Bowl sit there for five minutes and I could eat more food again and I would I would dense shovel and a couple more spoonfuls and leave it there shoveling up a couple more spoonfuls and leave it there until the thing was done you know but on me I'm like there there's a bite that's good good good and then all of a sudden I hit a point where I'm just like I'm done and I don't I don't want to even look at the meat anymore I just want to put it away and get rid of it and just move on with my day there's no like sitting around all I think I need to eat more because I know I'll be starving in two hours if I don't get in more calories yeah like no you're done you're good and that's you the the calmness thing that you said to and I was laughs I smiled earlier in a stream and people called me out for it because when he was done with his meal he had that that moment like he was eating eating and then he was like I'm done and he was like it like it shocked him that he was done and then he pushes the plate away and then afterwards I asked him like how do you feel and he's like I feel pretty relaxed like that was the word that came to his mind you know like yeah and I had that feeling to like I say it like my fingertips had a tingling sensation as well as like the back of my head after the first night that I had definitely the first time out at stake and I think it was the first night after I had a bunch of no I was after I had a steak but it was like it was like the steak this like like you could just relax like oh yeah yeah not just and it's not like but I just didn't I feel like a lot of people are just gonna look at this thing and be like God it just dismiss it and it's like oh that's bullshit you're talking shit but III genuinely think that your body knows very well what meat kind of is to the body you know it's like it knows that it's meat and that is going to get certain nutrients that you may have not been getting and it's gonna really latch on to things that you were deficient in oh yeah and tell you to eat them quite forcefully and I think that's that's what it what happened it just it just put all signals on to say you continue this because what you doing before yeah right yeah every vegan every long-term vegan that I know of the Riu know I had somebody ask me like why you didn't go to vegetarian and there's two reasons for that number one is because if I would have continued eating plants my digestion would have just been fucked and that would have been no good for me and a lot of vegans are coming from that same digestive horrible experience on veganism but the other issue too is that I feel like I need those foods to like recuperate something in my body and like when I and there's and I go through phases and I and I rotate to like some weeks I'll be like stuck on eggs like high-quality eggs like I'll just eat a bunch more eggs than normal and I'll and I'll be fine with like ground beef and eggs and then other weeks I'm like I want steak other weeks I'm like more into chicken for some reason you know like lately I've been into chicken and I wasn't even eating chicken for weeks or months yes Charles John is now and open out of the closet meat eater alright so how would you how's your style now like what are you eating now I just I dabbled in a bit of you know the carnivore style but in terms of long term eating am I going lower on the cards but I'm not going to go because yeah you know having been to health I've kind of looked into a lot of the lower carb stuff and finally enough I circled back to the loco stuff because when I started veganism that's partly why I started because I did a kiddy genic diet and actually fell down the stairs because maybe because of like electrolytes or something but at the time I didn't know too much about it but yeah I've done a full circle and I'm how to look into the ketogenic stuff I tried doing it a couple of times since I come back to me but I just I really can't justify it at the moment in terms of long-term sustainability I just don't see myself doing that the entire time and also I'm not convinced especially for muscle building my goals are not in line with the carnival way and I haven't really seen anyone build any appreciable muscle or I'll be doing that so I can't be doing that soon not all right bye what's that yeah I was saying I will be building muscle soon and I and I know that it can definitely work on doing a hundred percent carnivore if I wanted to however I will supplement a little bit of carbs like every probably two or three days which I would still consider carnivore but I was doing that with with milk and me basically like you can gain size at will and I'm only eating two meals a day too but right now I've been trying to specifically keep my body weight at a set level and just and just chop the fat off while maintaining that body weight so like essentially like a long-term body recomposition which i've been working on for like the last few months very long term very long very long to me but yeah I I don't know I dabble in a bit but I'm doing well on maybe I think I'm doing like 150 carbs roughly Siddhant not particularly high but yeah that seems to do pretty well for me it's like daily 150 um just a mania in intense it maintain the intensity in the gym like a I was doing when I first started I was doing quite a high carb and I was going to the gym twice a day and I just had stacks of energy to do that and then I tried low carb for a bit and it kind of just couldn't get any power and I know it's like you know a long time adaption and all that kind of stuff but yeah I just I just don't want to do that like three months experiment and then have it not be that great for me mm-hmm you know I've seen a lot of Stephen Feeney's work in relation to you know um ketogenic diets even the longer term you know 12 weeks some athletes don't do as well some do do better but some do worse and yeah just I'm not willing to invest that the three months it's probably needed to actually adapt to it to a significant degree sorry yeah Bart Kay was on my stream last week or this week and he said that it takes around three weeks to get to the point if you're doing truly zero carb or like very you know like Carnot worst rated zero carb if you're it takes about three weeks for your body to start providing enough glycogen to the muscles based on your activity levels to fully supply your workouts to the point where like you won't really notice that you're not eating carbs anymore was his was what he said now the Finney experiments are not familiar with those I don't know like if it was truly carnivore or what but it was C ketogenic is different like I feel like carnivore it has way more potential for athleticism than ketogenic does and I feel like ketogenic like the traditional ketogenic Way has been essentially debunked as like a performance diet whereas like carnivore I feel like there's still a lot of room for interpretation in terms of like who it would work for and why it works and stuff like that because you're not in ketosis and that's not really the goal of it but we could probably go way off topic with that somebody said I was reading something earlier sorry anyway sorry can continue on I was just gonna say with the with the little convoy experiment I did I noticed so I did it for about a week and a half and then I was like uh it's just not not any good like I just couldn't be bothered with it and then I stopped for a bit then I went back into it and it I would say even three out the first week in Hana with week and a half I was getting heart palpitations and feeling extremely lethargic like this is a week in and I redid it and I did I kind of lowered the protein a little bit I got said got some magnesium I got some sodium I got some potassium and that made zero difference either as well so I don't know I just all those things I couldn't really troubleshoot it so I'm just kind of leaving that until maybe there's a bit more a bit more a bit better guidelines around that kind of stuff so your but but I mean I know how high protein and carbs does in the gym and it's I mean if you want to talk about like maximal performance that's the winner yeah so like how is it now huh you know how is your back like does your body just feel like back to you know for mommy the first so I did high carbs for like a couple of three weeks and then I kind of started experimenting with all this stuff so funnily enough with the experimentation of just been going backwards but in terms of the first three weeks just yeah insane muscle growth like it was just you know back to the kind of my old self because I was very much like an athlete back in school you know I was like you know athletics champion and whatnot and it was just like I was like yeah this is what it feels like to take kind of be back to my old self in terms of performance and yeah it was just it was crazy I was going twice a day every day so yeah it's very very good very good what do you think about these bodybuilders that are getting good results for now like the John Venus's and Derek sim nets and like how do you think this will all end for them because we know it will you know mean like how are they able to maintain what they're doing assuming that they are natural assuming that you know these other things are part of the equation or not part of the equation I don't know I honestly I don't know too much about what they're doing behind the scenes or you know because you only see a small portion of what they do in real life they're only kind of you know they put up a few how to make this food and you know meal examples and they might do a full day of eating or whatever but you know you don't really seeing much and also it's not not much as being tested either like you know what if they were eating meat would they be a lot better bright the in relation to themselves and that's another thing that needs to be pointed out to people is like oh just because somebody has a fantastic genetics and they're bigger as a vegan and somebody with average genetics is as a meat-eater doesn't mean that the meat is worse than the vegan it just means that the their genetics are literally superior and we see that all the time I mean you know and if you make the animal many people who don't we see that people increase their strength and mass after they incorporate meat again so you know in terms of the self development yeah it definitely seems like it does increase and from personal I mean I know it's an anecdote but for me personally it's just been night and day I actually when I first went into the gym like the day after because I had to test it I had to see if there's any difference because I could feel different yeah and of course the first day or so it's probably maybe a bit of per se but just throughout the first week of going to the gym I would just I was laughing in the gym I was like this cut like this is for real what I've been missing out this is like you just feel like and and then and then sometimes I was angry as well I was like I was like oops and it's like six years of of trying to build muscle and you know it's just such a slow pace and I could have made so many gains like a fuck okay so here's what I want to I want to relate this to the vegans that might be watching this so like they might look at you and say well you already made what's that yeah go ahead well they may have looked at you while you had your vegan Channel and they may have may I may have said well what do you mean like what do you need more than that for like what so what does building muscle mean to you in the end like does it signify health to you does it signify just personal growth and development something you enjoy as a hobby you want to look good like oh why is this so important to people like us that want to be able to build muscle yes everyone wants to look good everyone wants to well I don't know about this but you know people want to be healthy to the extent that they want to engage in healthy activities or eat healthy food I find that the most ironic thing though is there's a lot of ethically based vegans who actually ironically eat the shittiest form of the vegan diet and openly say that they're unhealthy but at least they're doing it for the animals which is also heavily debated so that they're doing the worst of the worst like you have Klaus from plant-based news for instance he came on my channel the other day and he was saying he was admitting that he doesn't feel good on the vegan diet he eats a shitty version of the vegan diet all this frenzy – shitty version of the vegan diet yeah class it's the bed I mean he was a I thought it was well into nutrition and he you know had a obviously plant-based news and all that he interviews all the doctors I would have thought he'll be eating relatively healthy but when he said that he was eating junk and he just he's eating like he tastes like shit yeah he was very like animated he's very animated he found a guy actually yeah very shocking actually to me I was a little like whoa like take it down and yourself like anything about it with that like you know how a little jab at you back definitely it's a bit defensive yes and I understand I'm all about being defensive and and you know proving your point but it's like the way he was going about it was a little like I don't know disturbing or off-putting in a way like yeah yeah there's something about it that it was very uncomfortable the way he was defending himself and then when he was so he was talking about kye right mm-hmm yeah and but Kay said something and then class was like oh um you would like and that proves it or something you know he said something to that effect and yeah yeah yeah boom and it was just like what like why you say like I don't know animated over that class like he settle down and you know he wasn't even correct like class wasn't even right in that regard either I know about that GI study as well but yeah yeah well I'm glad he caught that and I'm glad we could just make comment on that it's the first time I mean I you know I've defended Klaus in the comment section people were ragging on him saying you know he was under carb and all this stuff and I was like well it was late there and but you know he he he wanted to come on the channel like he was in the comments like get out there and I said oh okay like sure it wasn't me begging him to come on or making him come on up against his will hmm so yeah there's I've had so much good vegan clips on this channel now between Jackson foster and plant erotic going you ain't gonna find it brother and button and Klaus is boom and I mean we got clips for days right now we should I want to make a little intro with all this shit man it's gonna be funny yeah uh you know it's pretty light here as well you know I thought it's early there right now I thought yeah early but like what time do you reckon is six an ish yeah true but it's huh but you've been up all night or you're up early supple night I do uber driving so I was up late get the late shift yeah uh well I'm glad you caught this were you in this since the beginning of the chat pretty much or beyond I came in like like an hour in I think pretty pretty tight into the stream actually I didn't really know what was going on but yeah I knew you guys were doing an experiment sorry yeah and I heard you talking about it obviously on the other stream talking about with bots Kay about the experiment and and class as well yeah at some point I got to get back on YouTube we're gonna make some videos gonna tell everyone gonna give them a little a little story a little story that no longer Bagan you've come out today and I appreciate you sharing it with the the stream today we've had a monumental stream a ten-year vegan eats meat on camera for the first time ever in youtube history yeah on a live stream as far as I know and then you come out and follow it up with another longer segment exactly well is there anything that you'd like to share with my audience I mean I guys you heard it go over to vegan health fitness channel he's going to perhaps make some videos soon maybe we do some live streams or whatever they're quite fun audiences a kind of all-encompassing yeah yeah the whole story kind of thing that you're the ex vegan story all that kind of stuff I might even do one with her let's see bring one why not I'm all for talking anybody like people are like bring on freely I'm like okay she's down to come on the show let's go I mean I'm not gonna you know there's there's nobody I wouldn't talk to at this point why wouldn't I there's there's nothing anybody could say to me that would like I as I been saying you can't debunk my experience you know you can debate anything that I say but you can't debunk my experience which means that I'm impenetrable to this these factoids that the vegans bring out like you you know how you felt when you ate that canna tuna you know how you felt that following week in the gym and how you feel now like that's your experience it's a very strong point in the terms of the of the like are you gonna trust your experience are gonna trust some vegans experience that you've never met on the internet because they tell you something that they heard yeah and that's the thing like it's just you know it's just weird because I've been vegan for six years like I've had a YouTube channel regarding veganism I I have videos on my channel where I go and do like you know chatting to people that whole ethical thing you know so I was very vested in it and you know I just had this feeling that people are gonna be like you know I don't think it's too many but there's gonna be people that just was guy yeah you didn't do it right and like you have no idea how many hundreds of hours I spent thousands of hours I spent you know either putting the other YouTube videos on bein ism or just researching nutrition like I've spent thousands of hours I talked about it like daily and you know they're gonna tell me that you needed to get more major threes or like some you should've watched cowspiracy go watch Dominion I had some I had some trolling here earlier go make him watch Dominion so I do yours you're you're literally where we were five years ago like just yeah just turn the clock back you have no idea you're just so clueless I'm sorry you think ins are so clueless you're so arrogant is what I that's the word I just keep coming back to you because they think that they can there think that they're gonna do it better than you they think that they've got this little system figured out like they don't know anything you know and I'm not saying that we know everything but we definitely know that that doesn't work yeah and and other you talk about you know the way you would kind of systematically maybe not even systematically but you'd mythically go through like all the things that you're doing in the diet and trying to adjust them you know to make it work for you and I know I did the same thing I tracked you know my I did my fitness pal for a year and a half that's just my fitness pal and I've done chronometer on and off the entire time like I would really what I'm doing am I getting the right nutrients how much protein roughly am I getting a day I knew a lot of people who are going to come in and they probably don't even track any of that there's never that in there oh they you know looked at it once in their lifetime it's a humbling experience isn't it to be so fucking wrong and to think you're so right and to be telling other people that they're doing it wrong and it's just like the cycle but in this in this vicious cycle of vegans going vegan falling off they're spreading this nonsense to other people because they do have this honeymoon period in the first couple years where they do feel pretty good because they basically taken out all the shit from their standard American diet yeah or standard Western diet so yeah like they feel better for a little bit and then the veganism sets in which is a deficient diet a malnutrition diet and then you have this other set of symptoms that pops up that you didn't have before and it's even worse than before so that's what they didn't understand I noticed that yeah a year in so I like especially in the gym I noticed you know six months I had really good gains in the gym actually very very good gains and I think that was just you know the extra carbs in the diet especially and you just mean it made you feel fuller like your muscles were very very pumped because you were eating so many carbs and it just and and you know maybe it was some of the vasodilators in some of the fruits I was any I don't know but it was just a number of things and and yeah just the game we're pretty good maybe my digestion was better at that point as well yeah I was getting more nutrition but yeah just slowly over that year just it just got harder to make gains and I thought that it was something you know I thought it was just because I'd gained so much that I couldn't really gain much more but and there was an element of that like I did gain quite a lot of strength in just six months but it was still you know you should be able to make you know continue on from there and just make relatively significant gains well I want to point out that there's a feeling that you get when you're somebody who works out in the gym and you're eating the right diet there's a feeling that you have where you feel strong okay and we need to separate this feeling strong from making gains when you're like for instance when you're cutting on meat and you still feel strong you don't feel weak but you're not really making gains whereas as a vegan you don't even feel strong even though you might be making some gains does that make sense like it's it's a it's a separation of the two but obviously when you're eating the right diet and you're eating enough calories you're gonna feel strong and you're gonna make gains hella gains where it's different like I never felt strong as a vegan I made some gains some modest medium mediocre gains but I never like had that extra shove you know like if it came down to me and another man like you know tug-of-war like I would feel like I would lose that fight every time you know what I mean like even given the same I was gonna cite you notice like I noticed in the first week going back to the gym the aggression was there like the the real light intensity you and you you're pushing a weight and you just got this extra gear and you've also got it so you get more reps but you also have just a lot stronger muscles I don't know what it is you can dig deeper you can dig deeper into the muscle like that those money reps at the end that's what I call them you know that those failure reps you can grind those out one or two that's where you get the gains and the aggression with so much more as well lucky I just noticed as I did like during the first week and I'm not sure is because if it was because it was I hadn't had those nutrients in a while and all of a sudden my body had a flood of them so would it you know it may be the homeostasis of those nutrients wasn't so so great at that point but it was just yeah like the the man is kind of I don't know if whether is testosterone or or something but it just felt like I could get a lot more reps and just yeah just a lot more aggression as well yeah anyway well Ron Paul said factoid or no no sorry I'm gonna ignore that one that one's stupid he said a thousand he was commenting on your your hours of making vegan content he said thousands of hours making fake vegan videos geez that's new and it's so stupid because these vegans that are on the internet out here serving no purpose not doing any type of activism not you know they're not even eating a healthy diet they're not representing in any way to positively benefit veganism they're over here criticizing online whereas you had a thirty five thousand user vegan channel subscriber vegan channel where you probably made potentially up to a couple thousand people go vegan or at least consider it yeah I know people I I mean the annoying thing is I know people who definitely went vegan because I had a YouTube channel and I was kind of a relatively good advocate like I know I'm relatively good at selling ideas and so you know it's not particularly hard for me when I'm talking to people to convince them to do something so I've no doubt that good salesmen they would have they would have done that and and and I want to point out too like Ron Paul you know you may or may not know this but I created a vegan dating app and I spent tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of time developing that like I had a personal vested interest just like you to be vegan keep building my vegan Network remain vegan sell make money off veganism obviously by doing what I'm doing now and still being tied to that like it hurts my business it it goes against what the vegans say they say a lot of them say that these vegans are jumping onto the carnivore thing for money it's like no it's the opposite we're literally throwing away everything we built to be to like live in real health because this is what we actually feel like this is the one time that we're telling the truth for sure you know yeah and I mean I anything yeah I never sold anything like it was just it was no consultations nothing huh you never did consultations or anything like that vegan constant cost Fitness I did a couple of times but yes but full intensive purposes no right if you can't if you count two times and yes I did but yeah it's all intensive purposes no no I didn't and one thing I would change when I if I do start again and sign up yeah on that point I probably would create a more you know business life try and actually make it sustainable because you know making videos or not selling anything or you know and it doesn't have to be like selling supplements I'm not particularly for that I you know if there's some sort of added value that I can provide then um I'm definitely going to look into that next time because yeah it's just like you know yourself like unless you may get millions and millions of views it's just not sustainable the amount of money you make from YouTube it's it's literally just you know doing it as a hobby and doing it as a service a free service to it's like volunteering right for the mic steps you take a bunch of shit for it and people call you a liar and people say that your every night those three months that I did last year every Saturday they were volunteer and it wasn't even my organization I was doing it to someone else they yeah I was putting in my time and effort to to do all that so it was no there's no money involved is not like they pay you to stand out there and talk to people about veganism it's like you just do it because you're vested in the movement you're interested in in yeah out of the goodness of your heart pretty much yeah Igor says still waiting for a true carnivore without stimulants and so funny that this has now become the the sticking point the the supposed Achilles heel because because carnivores are the only ones that drink coffee because you know it's like as a vegan I drank tons of energy drinks and tons of coffee coffee and people didn't say shit to me about it back then they didn't say it was the you know my vegan friends didn't say the vegan diet is telling me that the the diets causing me to go to the energy drinks they thought it was just something I did yeah coffee as well yeah Angie was quite low I would say look bottom line is you start adding in fats back into the diet with a high carbohydrate intake you are going to get sleepy as fuck after your meals period yeah yeah energy is gonna be so low the sleeping yeah I never got over that be that when you actually do mention that that that's one thing I did and I I don't miss any more is those sleepy feelings after eating a large meal and I would eat large meals I haven't got a bowl here to show you but I would eat very very large meals and you know I would have a couple two of kmart each meal like raw yeah I used to do a cup of quinoa dryer routinely with with a whole can of beans and then some other stuff yeah yeah and yeah exactly and I'd have like 200 grams of peas and sometimes well a lot of the time I'd have the what are they like veggie burgers and veggie sausages and whatnot but I have all of that together and by the way Whole Foods diet I could there's no way I could maintain that I'm six foot five no chance and I'm 90 the lightest of ever been in my entire life is 83 kilos and I would I would actually fade away if I did Whole Foods I noticed it almost a month or two in that I was like I noticed my weight going down way too much it was just insane I I didn't want to lose them I was already bleed enough but maybe you're meant to be maybe your optimal human form is meant to be skin weight and thin like John why do you want to be bigger nature but you know just eat the raw just eat the bananas you find in nature right outside your door yeah well it's like have you guys ever been in nature when okay there's so many survival shows on Discovery Channel and all these places when have these people ever eaten enough food in the wild and keep in mind that they're on tropical islands and all these type of places when have they ever ate eaten well off of fruits and vegetables that they forage themselves they are always hunting and hopefully killing a snake or hopefully killing a squirrel or fish so you actually eat good it's not possible you guys are living in vegan you Fruitopia is what i like to call it so I think that I'm ready to get the stream wrapped up here on a total basis but I do thank you for coming by and if you want me to come on your channel anytime yeah appreciate the surprise guest all right man have everyone hey you two see ya

47 Comments

  1. The Vegan Assassin strikes again. Drewmorg is living up to his reputation as literally Satan to vegans.

  2. Congrats guy u look so happy πŸ˜€ #meatheals

  3. Never vegan if he's laughing about it wtf

  4. I don't think it matters what this guy eats he is fucked in his head…
    " Yeah I need to pack up some muscle so I need more protein" what a fucking delusional fuck head…
    By the way Where is yr muscle mass Drew??? You look like my 4 years old son the wire is thicker on the mic then yr arms go get some more protein m8πŸ€”

  5. Veganism is a product of progressive ideologies taken to the extreme, backed by global elites. As progressivism falls, so will veganism.

  6. You guys with a big voice should put pressure on the vegan body builders to prove natty status.
    Check what kenobody is doing regarding this!
    https://youtu.be/WMdljqj5DMY

  7. As an INFP i agree

  8. Wtf? I have seen this guy before and legit thought he was a real vegan (in it for the animals) but obviously not? This is absolutely sickening

  9. WooHoo!

  10. Durianrider and Freelee are still responsible for more ex-vegans than Bobby.

  11. Good to see a fellow Aussie here! G’day John πŸ‘πŸΌ

  12. Here comes a VG 4 hour response πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ™„

  13. "You can't debunk my experience"

  14. Never heard of him lol

  15. Paul chek urself before u wreck urself

  16. Paul chek urself before u wreck urself

  17. Powerful bobby with his golden voice

  18. What causes down syndrome?..You said we Know, πŸ€”

  19. James Aspey has good mesomorph genetics (like Ted Carr) and could very well be an outlier.

    Everyone degenerates at different rates. I think it's pretty clear that he's degenerating from looking at that T. Colin Campbell vid. Looks gaunt to me.

  20. Pretty sure being vegan skyrockets your histamine and can give you histamine intolerance. I noticed I was itching like a motherfucker when exercising. I was becoming more allergenic and sensitive just as John described at the beginning of the video.

  21. Vegan Assassin!! πŸ₯’πŸ€Ί

  22. Tunas actually really nutrient dense if it's high quality. LOOOOAAAADED with omega 3s and active form b vitamins

  23. There's something Mesmerizing about watching people whose Worldview has been shattered.

  24. I eat 100% carnivore and my ketones are always around 1 to 1.5 with low glucose …. I’m always in a state of ketosis

  25. He wanted to be the flash but got tired of watchin the flash eat big belly burgersπŸ˜‚

  26. 2:29 I'm still focking vegan…

  27. DREW…please turn ON the LIVESTREAM…πŸ™ƒ

  28. Drew slow it down I don’t have time to watch all these epic streams πŸ˜…

  29. Wow

  30. I remember this guy. I subbed to him when I first became vegan in 2014

  31. I have a food forest. I don’t need to shoot anything to defend it. Just stick a few nets on the trees to stop the birds getting everything. Not vegan just pointing out you don’t necessarily need to kill animals to grow food even if some farmers do

  32. Woah!!! I just realised my fungal infections also went away around the same time as starting to eat meat again. I didnt realise until he mentioned it.

  33. Vegans admit that animals have less sentience then humans and plants less sentience then animals thus arnt they being speciesist. Plants want to live and reproduce aswell they have scences and can feel they know when a bug is on them and eating them and deploy numourous defences against them. everything on this earth eats meat every animal and every plant. This planet is 100% carnivorous

  34. John keating have you made a why im no longer vegan video yet? If not you should and show us your progress on carnivour month by month so that fools wanting to body build on veganism will see the difference

  35. I believe VG is an INTJ. Can’t be an INTP because I’m an INTP and VG doesn’t have an open mind. INTP’s will always seek truth even if it goes against their own bios. That is why we get stuck in a analysis paralysis.

    Speaking of INFP i actually have a coworker that is vegan with this personality type.

  36. Can of spicy tuna with rice is yummy cheap and easy a good way to start your journey back to sanity and carnivourism. And ofcourse fried or boiled eggs and bacon or salmon

  37. Even plants are carnivores. Put a chicken in the soil and 2weeks later there will be no trace as the plants love meat

  38. Thank you drewmorg, you are saving more people than you will ever know, "SKAL" my brother.

  39. The sooner we see the end of veganism the better.

  40. watching now β€β€β€β€πŸ’ŽπŸ’ŽπŸ’ŽπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸ˜πŸ˜πŸ˜πŸ˜βœ”βœ”βœ”βœ”πŸ’‹πŸ’‹πŸ’‹πŸ’‹βœ¨βœ¨βœ¨

  41. Meat Health Fitness

  42. About the carnivore vs keto. Yes carnivore is obviously better for performance because of the higher protein but if you eat carnivore and no carbs ur definitely in ketosis.

    Ppl thought keeping protein low is good because protein raises insulin a lot and ppl thought it would kick you out of ketosis. But Benk Bikman has showed protein eaten with carbs will shoot up insulin but without carbs the insulin line stays flat.
    https://youtu.be/z3fO5aTD6JU?t=590

    Also Valter Longo has done some research on a dwarf population in South America and they have rlly low lvls of igf and they are "immune" to diabetes and cancer. So the idea is keep protein low so igf is low so we don't get cancer. But in some epidimiological studies it looks like very high igf increases mortality but also low igf increases it as well. And the igf cancer link makes sense if u believe in the gene theory of cancer, more growth more chances for mutations to causes cancer, but if Thomas Seyfried is right about the metabolic theory of cancer where cancer is mainly caused by dmged mitochondria that have to ferment then keeping protein low won't help you if that low protein doesn't somehow help reduce the dmg to the mitochondria.

    And finally protein lowering about longevity. Calorie restriction increases live span and also ppl have noticed if they reduce methionine there is also an increase in lifespan even if it's shorter. Also mice fed 10% protein and 90% fat had a 13.6% life increase when the weight was controlled. But those are mice studies and mice have a much harder time getting into ketosis that's why they need those macros while humans have way easier time getting into ketosis or fasting.

    I'm not convinced that keto with lower protein is better than carnivore but both of them keep you in ketosis.

  43. bro change your name to "The Vegan Assassin"

  44. Congrats for 4k drew!!!

  45. Noice.

  46. I wondered what happened to him. Great interview Drew!

  47. Animals eat animals. We are just animals. Morals, ethics and values are made up human mind concepts. Life eats life. Competition is part of this game.

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