Australia and China: A Healthy Relationship? | Q+A


Tonight – are we
too reliant on China? It’s our biggest customer,
a global superpower, but coronavirus
leaves China isolated and the impact on Australia is huge. Our economy is hurting,
our diplomatic ties are under strain and many of you are sharing
personal stories about a rise in anti-Asian attitudes. You’ve got the questions,
now let’s get you some answers. Welcome to Q+A. (APPLAUSE) Well, hello and welcome. Joining us tonight,
in a first for Q+A, the Chinese government is represented by deputy head of the Chinese
Embassy, Minister Wang Xining. Researcher and outspoken journalist
Vicky Xu, who’s been advised to stay away
from China for her own safety. Infectious disease expert
Raina MacIntyre, who specialises in responding
to epidemics. China business expert
Jason Yat-Sen Li, who spent 10 years living
and raising a family in Beijing. And journalist Stan Grant,
who has covered the SARS outbreak in more than a decade of reporting,
from places including China. Would you please make them all
feel welcome. You can stream us on iview
and on YouTube and join in the conversation on
Facebook and Twitter and the Gram. #QandA is the hashtag.
Please be kind. Our first question tonight
comes from Andrew Robinson. Yeah, so, the incubation period
of the virus can have a significant impact
on control measures like quarantine. It now looks like the initial estimates of a 14-day
incubation period were incorrect and it seems to be, in some cases,
even longer than 20 or 25 days. Where did we go wrong with this? Raina MacIntyre? So, all incubations have a range. And we know that
more than 90% of people actually present by about 12 days and the majority will present
within 14 days. There might be a few outliers
that present longer than that. So I think still the two-week period is a reasonable period of time
for quarantine. But if we’re hearing reports –
some have come out of China – of someone presenting
up to 27 days later, doesn’t that mean that all
of our attempts to prevent this aren’t going to work, necessarily? Well, it’s a numbers game. If you manage to successfully
quarantine most people, you should still be able
to contain the infection. And, obviously, you know, if everyone who’s been
quarantined knows that there is a possibility
they could develop symptoms up to, you know, 27 days or so, then they should know
to report symptoms after the quarantine period.
OK. Our next question tonight
is a video question from Wang Ying, who featured on Four Corners
earlier this evening. She became trapped in Wuhan
while visiting family. I’m an evacuee out of Wuhan. I have just finished
my 14-day quarantine in Darwin. I’m very lucky to be
back in Australia. To prevent an outbreak
of this virus in Australia, does Australia have any
precautionary measures in place, in preparation
for this coming winter in June? I should point out, we’ve been
overwhelmed with questions, just about the basic facts
and figures on this. So we’re just going to stick with
Raina MacIntyre for a moment. You are a global authority
on this stuff. What should Australia be doing,
what ARE we doing, to prevent something large-scale
happening here? So, at the moment the focus is on
preventing an epidemic from taking off in the community. All the cases that we’ve had have
travelled or been on a cruise ship, and the measures, such as
quarantine, travel restrictions, are aiming to keep it out and not allow transmission
to take off in the country. There is a detailed pandemic plan
for the country that’s been, you know, worked up
over a long period of time. And what does that look like? So, basically,
if a pandemic is declared and if there is sustained
transmission in the community in Australia, which is possible, we move more towards mitigation, towards minimising the illness
and death toll in the country and managing the resources
in our health system… The chief medical officer says there
will be designated quarantine areas. Well, quarantine is for
the phase we’re in now. If it’s spreading
all through the community, you don’t need…
quarantine is kind of redundant. You need to isolate your cases,
treat your cases, find surge capacity to meet
the demand for hospital beds, intensive care beds, etc… And it seems from a lot of
the questions we’re getting that people are quite terrified
by reporting out of Italy and places like South Korea
of large outbreaks there. Because I suppose people
look at that and say, “Well, if it’s happening there,
could it similarly happen here?” Yeah. It’s a real concern
because China has… ..the cases have been declining
in China since about February 5. So it looks like that is coming
under control, and yet we’re now seeing epidemics that are, you know,
potentially very concerning in places like Italy, Iran,
South Korea. We’re going to get to some
of the individual implications of all of this
during the program tonight. But can people take individual steps? Is there any point in Australians
doing things right now? Yes. I think, if you’ve got travel
plans to highly-affected areas, you should reconsider. I think it’s probably not
a good idea to go on a cruise
in Asia at this time. Um… You can do things to avoid
being in a position of risk. At the moment in Australia, there’s no transmission
in the community, so I think other than just, you
know, taking reasonable precautions to avoid going
to situations of risk, there’s no other specific advice. But it’s always good
to wash your hands. OK. (CHUCKLES) Don’t do that while you’re watching
Q+A – you can wait until afterwards. Alright, our next question tonight
comes from Chenming Feng. China’s economy could be predicted
to slow by almost 4.5% in the first quarter of 2020. So what would you say
the biggest impacts of this on Australia would be? Jason. Look, there’s a number
of serious impacts. So, we are very economically
reliant on China, as you know. If you look at
our top three exports – iron ore, coal,
international education – a lot of that goes up to China. So the impacts are going to be deep
from a trade perspective. But if you look at it from
a consumer perspective as well, it’s going to hit sectors
like tourism, like travel, like hospitality. So all the tourists
that aren’t here in Australia, and all the international students
who aren’t here in Australia right now, are impacting
those sectors in Australia. But I think one of the
important things to bear in mind is that these things
are also impacting China in a really, really big way. And it illustrates just how joined
up our economies are at the moment. The global economy
is so interconnected now, so we want the Chinese economy
to recover and to do well because if that happens,
it also means that the Australian economy
does better as well. But we have to look after businesses that are suffering
here in Australia. We know…we were around
in Hurstville just the other day and we saw so many restaurants there
either closed or empty. And these are small businesses
where… ..probably going to the wall
right now. So, you know, we understand the need
for there to be community safety and to put health concerns
number one. But at the same time,
we have to recognise the really serious impact
that this is having on small business operators,
and do what we can to help them. Can I ask you, though…
Because it’s long been speculated that Australia is becoming
too dependent on China. For example, the university sector,
the education sector. I mean, we are seeing
the impact of this now even with something that has not yet
become a global pandemic. Are we too exposed in Australia? So, there’s a couple of things
to say there. I think, for any business
and for any organisation, it’s good to be diversified. You don’t want to have
a concentration risk, you don’t want to put
all your eggs in one basket. And that’s just good management. That’s just good business practice. For the universities, I think it’s
a slightly different story there. So, most of the big universities
in Australia are comprehensive
public universities. What that means is
that they have a responsibility to give as wide an education to as many members of
the Australian public as possible. And there are lots of courses,
particularly those that need labs – like medicine, like vet science –
that are loss-making courses because the fees that the government
gets and from domestic students is not enough to cover…
Sure. But a university
like Sydney University derives 23% of its total revenue
from Chinese students. Yes, and those…
Now, is that too much? Well, it depends
on how you look at it. Those students, that 23%, pays for those loss-making courses that are provided to domestic
Australian students. Those students… But what happens now if
those students can’t come here to study this semester? It’s huge losses, and those courses,
those labs that you’re talking about are vulnerable? And that goes… Yes, and that
goes to the concentration risk that I was talking about before. But the point still remains that
Chinese international students fund education for Australian kids, fund groundbreaking
Australian research. And this is
a really important point – it’s a really critical part
of Australian soft power because if we believe in our system,
if we like our system, if we like democracy,
what better way, what better way than to have
students coming from China, who, in the formative years
of their lives, where they’re going to make
lifelong friends – these are China’s
best and brightest – come and live amongst us
for one or two years. You know, experience our democracy,
experience our values. But doesn’t this situation
highlight the fact that the system, as you describe it, might not stand up
if those students went missing, as is the case this week
as university classes go back? Undoubtedly, it’s going to have
a significant impact on the university sector, and the university sector
is working at a whole range of ways
to mitigate that, because we have a responsibility
to the Chinese students who, in good faith, have enrolled and placed their trust
in the sector. But it does go back
to the concentration risk that I spoke of before, yes, as organisations,
and any good business, should diversify its revenue streams and not put all its eggs
in one basket. Our next question tonight
comes from James Schofield. What would we… Sorry. What would be different about this
epidemic if China was a democracy? Stan Grant? I think you’ve touched on
something really significant there. This epidemic takes us
into unchartered waters. For China, it’s a little bit
of a perfect storm. China has just come off its worst
GDP figures in 30 years, its latest economic growth figures. The economy had been slowing anyway. A crisis like this reveals
the fragility of the Chinese model. China is often called
a fragile superpower. Something like this, where China is unable to control
the information flow, unable to control reactions to this in the way that it can control
normal life in China, can very quickly become
an existential crisis. So, it reveals some of
the soft underbelly of China, that an autocratic regime
finds it very difficult to deal with things
outside of its control. In a democracy, of course,
we have checks and balances. We have, uh… We are able to elect
our own governments and we also, critically,
have a free media. So, people can ask questions,
they can hold people to account. What’s happened in China, we saw with
the Wall Street Journal reporters, reporters who reported
critically of China, are being expelled from the country. We saw with some health officials who had raised early concerns
about this being detained inside the country. So, it really does raise questions
about a country like China, which has an outsized influence
on the world, which is by some measures already
the biggest economy in the world, and certainly on track
to becoming outright the biggest economy in the world, does not share a political system
comparable to our own, with its same checks and balances. Minister Wang,
has China mishandled this crisis? I think the system helped to handle
the epidemic pretty effectively. People doubt about cover-ups
at the first stage, but naturally it takes time
to face a challenge. As to…
Was there a cover-up? I don’t think there is a cover-up. It is a very sophisticated issue. It involves a lot of agencies,
a lot of expertise. So, it takes time to make
a precise judgement on how to deal with… If possible,
I would like to explain – people say Australia
is a Western democracy and we are a state…a party state. Actually, we see ourselves
as a socialist democracy. A simple comparison between
Australian democracy and the Chinese democracy
will be like this – you have a voting democracy,
we have a working democracy. Because efficiency
is our top concern. We are…
But a democracy involves voting. Uh, we vote. I won’t… Who votes?
People vote. People vote for the members
of the National People’s Congress, and the People’s Congress
at all levels. But there’s no free vote
to elect your leaders in China. It is free. It is free. I worked in the local government. I know how people are voted. Of course, you…
So, how many votes did Xi Jinping win to become the leader of China? Xi Jinping was voted the President,
and in the Party, there’s also a voting…
voting process. You don’t know that.
It doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Let me finish.
I will take two minutes. Working democracy – why that? Because efficiency is top concern.
We are a developing country. We need the efficiency
to catch up with the developed world with economic and social progress. And you have deliberative democracy,
we have a consultative democracy. We don’t want to waste too much energy in
the contention about ideas. The final stage of, like,
parliament debate, the threshold of policymaking, we involve a lot of people in an
extensive process of policy debate. When I worked in Beijing, our year plan need to consult
with eight parties who participated
in administration and legislation. You don’t know that.
It doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. And the final thing,
you have a competitive democracy. We have an inclusive democracy. We don’t think “winner takes all”
is a good idea for current China. We need to include everybody
in the joint growth of our country. So, if this policy, the minority,
might lose some interest, we will find another
supplement way to make sure that their interests
will be better protected. So, it is difficult
in this part of the world to understand how
a democracy should work with a one single leading party. It is difficult. Let me bring in Vicky Xu. Is China a democracy,
as he describes it? Uh, I don’t think… I think, you know, there are democracies written
into China’s constitution, but if they’re practically
carried out is another issue. And just speaking of cover-ups
during the coronavirus, I would like to give us here
a time line. So, 30 December, a Chinese doctor, Li Wenliang, he talked about
the possibility of coronavirus in a private chat group
with other doctors. He’s a professional,
a medical professional, so he knows what he’s talking about. And he was taken away by the police
and he was forced to apologise. He was forced… He was silenced. Five weeks after,
this doctor passed away, and he was infected
with coronavirus. On 7 January,
the president, Xi Jinping, gave instructions to…inside
of the Party to other leaders about coronavirus, but China did not declare emergency,
national emergency, about coronavirus
until 20 January. And that’s… You know,
from the day Dr Li Wenliang was taken away by the police
to China declared emergency, that’s three weeks. So, I’m sure a lot
of public servants were working very hard
to figure this out, but I do think the three-week gap
needs explanation. Minister Wang, was it a mistake
to silence Dr Li in the beginning? Uh, the central government have
already sent investigation team to Wuhan to find out
what happened with Dr Li, but he’s a very respectable
and commemorable doctor, and people will remember him
for what he does. He’s one of thousands…
thousands of doctors and nurses who dedicate their…
their lives sometimes for the sake of this epidemic. So, let me bring in Stan Grant.
Yep. Was the silencing of Dr Li
a symptom of the system? That’s the question, really. It goes to the heart
of the problem in the system, and that is the system
is not transparent and it does not allow
the free flow of information. And under Xi Jinping,
that has only doubled down. As you know,
there are more activists, more dissidents, more journalists
locked up in China today under Xi Jinping
than there was before. And Wang Xining and I
go back a long way, because he was in charge of me,
effectively, controlling the foreign media
when I was in Beijing. When we would do a story on CNN,
which I was working for then, that the Chinese did not
want people to watch – and Minister Wang would know this –
the screen would go black. So, information was blocked
from people. People that we would interview
would often disappear, would be taken…put under
house arrest or detained. We were detained
on numerous occasions – sometimes violently and
physically detained, intercepted. So, the problem in the country is that it doesn’t trust
its own people to allow the free flow
of information. Hence, something like this
can very quickly become an existential crisis
for a country like China. When you add to that
a slowing economy, increasing unemployment, increasing levels of debt,
protests in Hong Kong, you reveal the fragility that sits underneath
the autocracy of China. The suppression of information
that he’s describing, that’s true, isn’t it? I don’t agree.
Well, you do black out the screen. We…we were…
we were there together, and…and you know very well
what happened to foreign journalists if they didn’t obey your rules. There were over 600
foreign correspondents. Some are from the West media.
Some are from developing countries. We think sometimes the Western media
filters out the information, picks out a piece
from the large jigsaw to portray China
as a very autocratic country where, if you go into the alleys,
go into the streets, talking to the people,
you’ll find… For example,
according to Pew Center, 85% of the people agreed with
what the government is doing. They think China is moving
in the right direction. And there are 90 million
Communist Party members. And each year there are two million
more joining the Party, 80 of them under the age of 35. If you think they are idiots,
that’s an insult to a large… Just a simple question. Do you suppress information
by blacking out the screens when there’s information
you don’t like? What case are you referring to? (LAUGHTER)
But… XU: Well, there’s too many.
Stan, I’m sure… I’m sure you can…
Numerous examples. And you know this. When something goes to air
the Chinese officials didn’t like, they would black the screen. Uh, we are… I’m not sure about which case
you refer to, but we… OK, I’ll give you an example. We did stories on…
The freedom of the… We did stories on Chen Guangcheng,
who was a blind activist being held under house arrest
by the Chinese government. When we did stories, the minute
we would mention his name, the screen would go black. That’s just one example. That’s a case related
to Washington’s involvement with judicial process of China. And I think freedom of speech is also enshrined
in our constitution. And we try…the government
is trying its best to protect that on the condition it doesn’t
affect the social stability. And I think anywhere in the world, there’s a periphery
for freedom of speech. I don’t think child pornography
or pro-terrorist information would be allowed in Australia
or anywhere in the world. So, if we see that
Party’s leadership is enshrined in the constitution, everything had to be done
according to the constitution. Vicky? I would like to add that,
in the case of Dr Li Wenliang, you know, following his death, this is the biggest public outcry
I’ve seen in China’s social media in the last five years,
maybe up to a decade. Let me finish. And people are so angered
and saddened by this doctor’s death because, you know,
he’s the perfect doctor, he’s the perfect Chinese citizen. He supports Hong Kong police. He supports
all the Communist Party policies. He…
He’s a Party member. He is a Party member.
He’s a Communist Party member, yes. He’s a perfect citizen…
Yes. ..yet he was silenced
and he died from this virus. And, on social media, the trending hashtag
was #IWantFreedomOfSpeech. So, people – the Chinese people –
think this is an act from the Chinese government party suppressing freedom of speech. Anyone who obstructs the process
of proper dealing with the crisis, with this epidemic,
will be dealt with according to either Party discipline
or the national law. Mm.
There’s no doubt about that. Several high-level people
have already lost their job because of their bad performance
during this process. No, I disagree. The Wuhan mayor, on his way out… He was fired. On his way out,
he said he wanted to report this. It was a mistake
he didn’t report this earlier, but he couldn’t do it without
central government’s approval, so that delayed things. That is a problem
of a centralised power. Again, you are picking
one piece out of a big jigsaw. Look at the scale. The central government,
and government at all levels, put in this national campaign. And we believe, at this moment, every country
that have been affected should share the information, particularly the method of treatment
and medicine and vaccines, with every country, with the international
health organisation, so as to prevent this epidemic
from further spreading. Look at how much effort
the government has made. Wuhan has been locked down
overnight. More than 30,000 medical staff
have been dispatched to Wuhan and other cities in Hubei province
to help their colleagues. And the whole…the whole population
were advised to stay home. It’s an unprecedented challenge
in human history. It’s an unprecedented campaign
organised by the Chinese government against an epidemic
which is a common enemy of mankind, not only… What the sacrifices China has done
is for the benefit of the world. OK, let’s take our next question
this evening, from Alexandre Dayant. Oh, well, this is
a good follow-up question. So, this is for Deputy Head
of Mission Wang Xining. When Scott Morrison
announced his decision to extend the travel ban to all
non-Australians arriving from China due to the coronavirus,
you said it was an overreaction. But if China has locked down more than 45 million people
in Wuhan, is China not also overreacting? Before we go to Minister Wang, Raina, is China
reacting…overreacting? No. The lockdown is an accepted
public health measure. You stop people moving, travelling, and it reduces the risk
of transmission across borders, and in this case, the actions
of the Chinese government have prevented cases
from occurring in other countries and the rest of China. And what about
the Australian approach? Is it fair to view that
as an overreaction? No. That’s a standard
public health measure – quarantine and travel restrictions. They’ve been used
throughout history. (CLEARS THROAT) They do work. We’ve actually got, you know,
legislation around quarantine and public health acts which allow us to override
the individual rights in the case of the public good,
where the public good… So, Mr Wang, the question is,
you’ve criticised Australia, describing something
of an overreaction by barring students
from coming here, for example. How can you call our reaction
too much when you’re taking
very severe action in China? First, I need to commend
the Australian medical authorities for a successful operation. There are 22 cases confirmed.
10 are already cured. And also we heard good news
from Darwin and from Christmas Island for the people
who came back from Wuhan. And as far as I learned,
over 30,000 people, mostly Australian citizens and PR
and their relatives, came back to Australia without
a sharp rise of the confirmed cases. So, the embassy provide
our information to our counterparts in the different departments
of the federal government and we provide our analysis,
understanding, but… But you described
Australia’s reaction as “a vicious cycle of panic
and overreaction” on February 4. What I said two weeks ago…
I mean it is easy to fall into a vicious trap
of panic and overreaction, so… And I also said it’s
up to the Australian government to decide what to do, and it’s the medical authority,
headed by Dr Murphy, who knows your capacity well, who knows the situation well,
who knows the restraint well. We respect that recommendation,
but at the same time, we have businesspeople back in China
waiting to come back to their offices in Sydney
and Brisbane, blah, blah, and also over 100,000 students
are waiting coming back to their campus. And over the past two days,
the cumulative figure of confirmed cases in China
are going down, new cases are going down, and there are zero cases
in major cities and even in provinces
surrounding Wuhan, like Hunan, which has nearly 100 million people. So, we think
we will provide our opinion to help the Australian government
to make a right decision that is scientific, rational
and proportionate to the risk. So, given that,
I want us to take a look at some of the images
broadcast tonight on the ABC, displaying some of the measures
that are being taken in China. Let’s just take a look. (SCREAMING) Are these sorts of measures
appropriate, proportionate? Well… Well, we need to make 100% effort to achieve 0% possibility
of further outbreak to prevent any possibility
of human-to-human transmission. Some people are not very willing
to cooperate. But are these tactics appropriate? You mean dragging people out?
Yeah, if they are confirmed. If they are confirmed,
they are the host, think of their neighbours. And think of now… Millions of people are staying home. They are also suffering because I know some people
are quite stir-crazy, and the youngsters are talking
on the social media. They miss hotpot.
They miss barbecue and beer. They’re talking about
the possibility of a next-round get-together,
but this is… Most of the Chinese people
are good people. They are willing to sacrifice
their immediate pleasure and personal income
for the greater good. If we let these people out – and there are several cases recently
of not communal outbreak, but people-to-people transmission – those people who were infected,
what do you say to that? We don’t use force
to put them into custody and give them proper treatment
and stop further outbreaks. Jason, when you see those images,
do you feel uncomfortable? Yes, sure do. I mean,
they’re really confronting images. And, look, just listening to
the to and fro that’s going on here, I think it’s really important,
when we think about China… ..and any complex organisation, that there’s a good
and a bad, right? And what we just saw
was clearly very, very bad. What we hear from Vicky,
what we hear from… ..you know, about a number of things
that China does, that is very clearly bad China. But I also think
it’s super important that we have the mental space and we have the capacity
to recognise that there’s also a flipside –
that there’s also a good China – because if all you focus on
is bad China, it blocks out the sun, right? It doesn’t allow anything positive
to come from that. So, look, I don’t want to defend
what happened just there, but at a macro level, you know, maybe we can acknowledge that, yes,
super hardcore sort of tactics that have happened here,
but have they been effective in stopping the transmission
outside of Hubei and Hunan province? And if they have been effective
at doing that, then now that
there’s been a turning point – and Raina would know much more
about this than I would – but if there’s been a turning point and now we’re beginning
to see sustained transmission in other countries, such as Italy,
you know, such as Iran, then what can we learn from the way
the Chinese have done things? Not to say to do it like that.
I mean, that is way too hardcore. But what can
we actually learn positively from the way
that China has managed the outbreak to help us deal with the same thing? I think the overriding thing… This is a global problem. I just want to bring Raina in ’cause you’ve been full of praise
for China’s response. Is that the sort of thing
you’re talking about? So, just to be the devil’s advocate, and I’m not commenting
on those videos specifically, but there are… In Australia,
we have state public health acts and a federal quarantine act. And under
the state public health acts, you can forcibly isolate someone
who is an infectious diseases risk if they pose a risk
to the community around them. And it has been used
very infrequently, but it has been used in Australia to essentially,
you know, isolate people who are infectious with diseases
such as TB or other… So, there are provisions here
for something like that? Yes. So, it’s a…it’s… Again, these kind of legislation
basically look at the public good versus individual rights. And in some instances, the public good is greater
than individual rights. OK. Our next question tonight
comes from Fei Wang in the front row. And this is
a very deeply personal question at a very difficult time for you. That’s right. My question is to Mr Wang Xining. OK. I am Chinese-Australian
and my father had a terminal illness and he was receiving
palliative care in China. My family and myself…
Can you hear me? He can’t hear you, but I’ll just pass on
the information. So, Fei’s father has been
suffering cancer, I believe. He’s been in palliative care
in China. Mm-hm. And there’s been some news overnight.
Yeah. And during my father was receiving
the palliative care, my family and myself, we… ..my family was
desperately wanting me to be at my father’s bedside. However, he was passed away
just yesterday. I’m still desperate
to go back to China to be with the rest of my family and especially
for my elderly mother. As a China-born Australian, and I’m holding very strong
Chinese tradition… ..values with my heart, and I wish to make my journey back to China as soon as possible
to be with my family. So I would like to know
if there’s any support from Chinese government that can make my trip in China
be safe… ..be safe
in these current circumstances? Fei, we’re so sorry to hear your news
and our thoughts are with you and all of your family tonight.
Thank you. And I know it was important to you to
come and ask this question tonight. Can you offer any support,
any assurance, even, for Fei to be able to return home
to be with her family right now? I’m sorry for your father. I don’t know what
the exact situation in your family. Uh… I don’t know what is wrong
with your visa problem. Uh… There will be a way out, but… I think there might be
historical reason for your access to China. You seem to be very anxious,
to be very angry about it – I think you don’t agree
a lot of things in China. Is this because of that, you think? Because as far as I know,
the Australian-Chinese community… I think this is just
a simple question about… ..make a huge contribution
to our links, to our bilateral relations, and they made
indelible contributions for the growth of our relationship. I hope…I hope
the local Chinese, with… ..uh, local Chinese,
whether they are Chinese citizen or PR or Australian citizen, will be able to serve as a bridge, not a war between China
and Australia. Mr Wang, even if this lady,
she did express opinions that China didn’t like, why would China stop her
from returning home? I don’t understand
what’s the issue here. Why did you assume that?
Personally, I don’t know the case. I don’t know the case. I don’t know
what’s happened with you. It’s an individual case. I don’t have any opinion about…
I don’t have… I have no problem with my visa. Of course, I had…I actually have
multiple-entry visa to China. So what’s your worry
about your going back? I’m worried about my health
if I’m going back to China. I’m asking if there is government
support from China – yes or no? That’s actually the point
I want to know. The epidemic is rampaging in China. Our advice is for the safety
of your health and for your life… It’s not 100% guaranteed and because a responsible government
would make 100% guarantee for any people from outside
to be safe. But, uh… ..as I said, provinces
outside of Hubei is relatively safe but I don’t know where you are going and what’s your travel plan. I don’t think the international… ..uh, the World Health Organization
would recommend a massive flow of people,
mobility of people, at this time. OK. Let’s take our next question
tonight from Hannah Kwon. I’ve noticed that
a lot of the content online surrounding the coronavirus
is very xenophobic and based on fearmongering. I’ve had friends of mine who are
of Asian descent in Australia, you know, be in instances like
where they’re in the supermarket and have someone pass by them and whisper under their breath,
like, “Coronavirus”. So, how do we, you know,
educate people and… ..that, you know,
not every Asian person that they pass by on the street
has the coronavirus or, you know, stop the allowance
of this casual racism? Jason, it’s certainly happening,
isn’t it? Yeah, it’s all over the place. Just walking here tonight, one of my friends was saying
she was walking with her sister and there were two elderly gentlemen who said loud enough
so that they could be heard, “Oh, what about this corona-thing
going on in China?” “Yeah, it’s so dirty over there, “no wonder this sort of thing
can happen.” And so, look, I think
we need to acknowledge there’s a lot of fear
and anxiety going on out there and it’s because there’s so much
that’s unknown, you know, about this virus – we really don’t know
what’s going on. But in the absence of knowing
what’s going on, it allows the panic
and the fear to take over and it’s so easy for that to descend
into xenophobia and racism and the ‘yellow peril’ –
it’s always close to the surface. So I think we need to be
very, very careful that we don’t go down that way. We need nuance in how we understand. So, just because you look
sort of Chinese doesn’t necessarily mean you’re from
the People’s Republic of China – you know,
my parents are from Hong Kong. People who look Asian
could come from… ..or people who even are Chinese
by heritage, civilisationally Chinese, they could come from Malaysia,
Singapore, the Pacific Islands – there’s a lot of diversity
in the Chinese community, number one. Number two, as Raina has said, there is
no community transmission now. It’s been at 15 cases for
the last sort of couple of weeks, and there’s seven
who have been repatriated… But clearly people seem to have
the perception that it may happen. Um, yes, and that is
part of the fear that’s going on, and so because there is
this information void, it’s incumbent on leadership
to go out, really clearly, to say, “Your chances… If you go down to
your local shopping centre “or you go to your local
Chinese restaurant and have a meal, “your chances of getting
the coronavirus “are really close to zero.” And racial profiling, looking at somebody and going,
“Oh, they’re looking Chinese, “therefore I might catch something
from them,” that is a really ineffective way to prevent yourself
from getting the virus. The effective way to do it is
what Raina said, and that is personal hygiene – washing your hands,
coughing into your elbow. Stan Grant, why is it that
something like this can happen and you suddenly see a spike
in racism in Australia, people looking at individuals
of Asian descent and making the sorts of comments
we heard about then? I think it’s a couple of things. One, in the same way
that the crisis reveals something deeply embedded
in China or the Chinese Communist Party, about the lack of transparency
and trust, it also reveals something about us. And I think, in Australia,
when it comes to issues of race, it’s never far from the surface, and we are, in many ways,
a deeply unprincipled nation when it comes to issues of race. Why?
It is built into our country. I’m an Indigenous Australian,
our lands were invaded and stolen – not settled and dispossessed,
invaded and stolen. When, for most of the 20th century, Australia had a policy
of excluding non-white people. When we spoke of the ‘yellow peril’
as Jason has just talked about, then those issues of race
are always there – it is at the core of who we are. It doesn’t mean every Australian
is a racist, but it is built into the foundations
of the country, and I don’t think we can just brush
those things blithely aside. It does reveal something
deeply entrenched in the country. And I think also… I touch
on the media here as well, Hamish. I don’t think the media helps in the way that
a lot of this is reported. Just looking at reporting
in recent days and listening to the ABC today,
we’re using the language of war – ‘the front line’,
‘the battleground’. I heard on ABC this morning,
“The latest battleground is Italy.” When you use language of war,
when you use emotional language, when you give impressions
of, you know, hordes of Chinese bringing illness, it doesn’t take much
to touch those buttons, those racist buttons that are
always there in our society. I want us to meet Karen Soo. She is from
the Haymarket Chamber of Commerce. Her family came to Australia
in the 1920s, I think, your grandmother
first arrived here. Yeah, that’s right. I know this is touching
a lot of businesses, but it touches you personally
as well. How are you experiencing
this moment in time? I think exactly
what you were saying, Stan, is that this is a health matter,
not a race matter, and I think it’s affecting
businesses. Like, for some reason, there’s only
been four cases in New South Wales that’s been isolated, and yet we’ve got
over 200 restaurants in Chinatown and some of the businesses
have dropped by 50% and so I don’t know
what the correlation is. It’s suddenly gone from this… You know,
it’s just not very logical. As an individual, though,
you’re feeling it as well, how? Sure. Uh…I was out with a friend
the other day who wouldn’t share a drink with me. But, look…
Did that hurt? Did that hurt? Seriously?
Um… I just think it’s become
very apparent that I’m wearing my race –
as in, my heritage – and it’s become… I mean, as I said, my forefathers
have been here 100 years and yet I’m feeling more aware
of my heritage than ever in my entire life
because of this health matter that doesn’t seem to be
really affecting… It’s not… I mean, the World Health
Organization released a hashtag – #KnowTheFacts, #FactsNotFear – and also said this infodemic
is equally as dangerous as the epidemic. And I think we’re feeling it from a local point of view,
personally, every day. Thank you very much, Karen.
Thanks. Stan Grant, what sort of leadership
do you think it takes to steer a community through
something like this without all of the fear, without targeting individual people,
individual groups? To be fair, I think we have heard
from our political leaders saying that this is not
about ordinary Chinese people. Um…I think we have heard that. But it is always there, Hamish. It is…
These buttons are so easy to push. So, I think we need to be aware
about how we report these things, how we present these things, that our leaders do need to say,
over and over again, when there are quarantine measures,
“This is not based on race. “It’s not based on how you look. “It is about preventing
the spread of an illness.” But those things
very easily become conflated, as I said before, because, you know, a crisis reveals
something very essential about the nature of your country, your culture, your history. I don’t think you can separate
Australia’s history from the type of
knee-jerk racism you see in… I know you’re saying
Australia’s leaders are making isolated comments now
about that specifically, but I’m talking about
the bigger picture that you describe. Do we have the kind of leadership
that can steer us through those challenges and navigate
the complexities? Bigger questions of race? Yeah.
Yeah. No, I don’t think we do.
I don’t think we grasp that at all. If we can just talk specifically about what I think is
a fundamental question in Australia, that is the question of the place
of Indigenous people. We are still
the only Commonwealth nation not to have a treaty. New Zealand does, Canada does,
the United States does. We don’t have meaningful
constitutional recognition of Indigenous people in Australia. We don’t have meaningful
self-determination, self-contr… ..the ability of
Indigenous communities to determine their own destinies, as you see in other parts
of the world. We fundamentally don’t grapple
with these things. And, you know, we overlay this with what is a very multicultural,
very diverse nation. But, fundamentally, a country
is born out of the idea that Indigenous people have
no rights to their own land, and that the people whose land
was taken are still the people
who are locked up in the greatest numbers today, are still the people
who have the worst health and housing and education
and employment outcomes. And believe me, having lived
in different parts of the world, if you speak to non-white people
in other parts of the world, they say their experience
of Australia is often very much the same. When they come here,
they do experience the very sort of racism
that we’ve just heard there. And I also know that the Chinese
and the Chinese Communist Party have often pointed this out, says to the United States,
says to Australia, “You have your own
human rights issues.” You know, “Why are you pointing
the finger at us?” I want to ask this question because I think it comes up
every time you appear on Q+A. Many people in Australia think that you’d be
a great leader of some description. I’m not sure what end of
the political spectrum, to be honest, you sit on. (LAUGHTER)
But I… (APPLAUSE) Maybe that’s a sign of
your journalistic integrity. But I would like to understand, because I know a lot of political
parties have made overtures to you, very serious ones. Why don’t you? Because fundamentally,
I’m not a politician, Hamish, and I don’t think that politics
is the only way to speak to people. I think being able to write, the honesty of being able to speak
with your own voice as a writer, as a filmmaker, speaks more powerfully
to what I think are fundamental truths. And I think the history of
Indigenous people being involved in politics is
often a history of disappointment. You know, we can only ask
Ken Wyatt at the moment as he’s trying to shepherd through
constitutional recognition, running up against a government that has already rejected
the Uluru Statement from the Heart which was the expressed wishes
of Indigenous people that Ken Wyatt
is there to represent. It can be a poisoned chalice.
More power to those who can do it. But I see my role primarily
as a storyteller. And I think nations are stories
before they are laws. I think that a story of a nation
is important. That’s why I try to do what I do. OK. Let’s take
a video question next. And this comes from two gentlemen
in Adelaide. Their names are Sadam Abdusalam and Almas Nizamidin. And you may have seen them
in a documentary about the Uighur community
in Australia last year. Hello. My name is Sadam
and this is my friend, Almas. We are both Uighur Australians. And our question is for Mr Xining. Almas’S wife is detained
in a Communist Party prison without any evidence. He hasn’t heard from her
in three years. And my wife
and my three-year-old son are under house arrest in Xinjiang. My son is an Australian citizen and is holding
an Australian passport, and I have never met him. The Australian government
have given my wife a visa so that they can come
and join me in Australia. But the Chinese government
won’t let them leave. Why have the Communist Party
locked up one million Uighurs? Will you release our family members? Let’s keep this very simple.
Why can’t he see his son? This is another piece
out of a big jigsaw. The Xinjiang autonomous region
has a land equivalent to Queensland and have the population
of the entire Australia. Uighurs constitute about two-fifths
of the entire population. There are 55 other populations…
sorry, other ethnic groups. And ever since the 1990s,
when there are strong growths of radicalism and terrorism
in Xinjiang, the Chinese government
made huge efforts to secure safety for the people because thousands of people
have been killed. But ever since 2016… With respect,
that’s not answering the question. It’s simple. Why can’t that man
see his son? His son… According to my knowledge… It is Mr Abdusalam?
Yes. Yeah. He’s not a Uighur,
he’s a Uzbek. He took his wife… ..I mean, the lady in Xinjiang to the United States
for a romance tour and the lady became pregnant. It’s understandable. But according to Chinese law, they don’t have
legal matrimonial relations. And according to what the… The regional government told her… Does the child have
Australian citizenship? We don’t recognise dual citizenship. So, you’re either Chinese citizen
or Australian citizen. But the girl with the son,
with the family, told the government in Xinjiang she would not like to come
to Australia. This is the story… This is the information provided
by the regional government. Again, let me finish. I think epidemic is a common enemy but infodemic is much more serious
an enemy. If infodemic is the problem, why don’t you let journalists
go into Xinjiang? Why don’t you let us go in
and see these children? We have… What? I would happily travel there
and interview… Journalists are going to Xinjiang. Would you allow me
to go and travel there? Without minders,
without people following him? Nobody will follow Hamish
over there. (LAUGHTER) So, you would allow me to go
with a team from the ABC to report from Xinjiang
to see the camps? Stan knows. Stan works with CNN. Your team went to Xinjiang
a couple of times. And people are talking about it… We were often…
We were often detained. We were often physically assaulted while trying to get to speak
to people in many parts of China, as well you know, Wang,
from our time together. It’s always
taking a piece out of the jigsaw and portray China
as something very bad. With respect, I mean, there are
a lot of pieces in this jigsaw that paint a very particular picture
when it comes to information. Yes, yes. I mean, you’re saying
that it’s wrong to identify small pieces of the jigsaw?
No, no. I mean, this is important.
This is a family. The child is an Australian citizen.
Why won’t you let them travel here? My government wouldn’t recognise
his citizenship because his mother,
his blood mother, is the custodian, right? She is responsible for defining
the citizenship of the boy. She didn’t apply
to the regional government or to the Chinese government
for another citizenship. This is what the embassy is informed
by the regional government. There’s always one side of the story purported by the Western media. That’s why the Western media
is not welcome in China. Are you seriously saying, though, that this woman and the child
don’t want to come to Australia? I mean that. Four Corners has reported
on this case and with videos of this woman saying she wants to come
to Australia. Are you saying that ABC faked
these videos of this woman crying? There’s a lot
of fake news running around. (LAUGHTER) You’re accusing ABC of fake news
right now and you’re on their show. Do you understand the irony? Well, uh… (LAUGHTER) Yesterday, on the Chinese
social media, the popular item is a map used by one of the Western media, portraying the five million people
running around the world, sending coronavirus around. No, let’s come back to Xinjiang.
But that picture… That’s a picture
that’s used 10 years ago. I mean, this is… I hope this is
a qualified journalism, not to boost Western superiority
over China. China is such a big country
with so much sophisticated issues. The government and the Party
have done so much. Look at what happened
over the past four decades. Australia still accounts for 25%… I mean, trade with China
accounts for 25% of the total of Australia. And China has put forward a Belt and Road Initiative
to share economic opportunity with everybody
in Asia-Pacific community. And we learnt to share our resources
with every citizen, because we can’t afford to have the same per capita resources
consumption as the West. You overconsume. You don’t know it. So there is a legitimacy of argument
back in China. So, I said try to understand
the Chinese perspective. I have a Chinese perspective.
I’m from China. I lived most of my life in China. I’m a Chinese person and
I speak Mandarin as well as you do. And I just want to go back
to that question of those two men
asking for their wives. I already explained the case.
I already explained the case. I already offer you
the information from… From your perspective.
..from our regional government. So, it’s up to the whole
Australian audience to judge about this particular case. But on the issue of Xinjiang,
since I came to Canberra, I find it’s a small number of people
in Australia who tried all out
to preach xenophobia and give a misportrayal of China. I think they are, either out
of their politically motivated… ..out of their selfish
personal aspiration, or they are nudged and supported
by some foreign forces. As… You could seek evidence… Which foreign forces?
United States. (LAUGHTER)
Um, Foreign Minister Marise Payne has personally raised
the case about the Uighurs. She says she’s very concerned
about the million Uighurs and other Muslim minorities
being detained. And she has requested
the Chinese government to give the information
about the whereabouts of Sadam Abdusalam’s wife and
child’s whereabouts multiple times. Are you saying that…
Madam… ..our Foreign Minister…
Yeah. ..Marise Payne is…
Madam Payne was misinformed. ..somehow a stooge
of the United States? Madam Payne was misinformed. Are you saying she listens
to fake news? Based on her judgement,
sometimes, the… ..on the Western media’s
portrayal about the issue. It’s training centre. People get
to be prepared for future jobs. Training centres with fences
and barbed wires and watchtowers and guards, and people are rounded up
and sent in? There are over 1,000 people
who visited these training centres. Most of them… Many of them
are from Muslim countries. And… And those are guided tours
with minders. Can I just interrupt here? Are people in these camps,
you call them re-education camps… No, no, they are not camps.
They’re training centres. Training centres. Are they…
(LAUGHTER) Are they there voluntarily? I think most of the trainees
committed minor offences, not to the degree of criminal
persecu…persecution. Yeah, that’s the word.
But are they there voluntarily? Uh… Some of them.
Many of them, I would say. Well, because that region was contaminated by terrorists
and…radical ideas. Thousands of people were killed
before 2016. If you blame the training centre
for holding these people, give them modern secular education, what would you say to the victims
of those people killed? In Yunnan, a 16-year-old girl
smashed people with knives and killing…
killed a lot…some people and say, “I believe people,
because I’m told by the terrorists “this is a way I will bring
my victim to the heaven.” And the million…
So the first priority is to… There are 10 million Uighur. Where have you got
the number one million? This is… This is the number confirmed
by the UN. This is the number confirmed and recognised
by the Australian government. We have… We have
United Nations officials visiting the training centres and come to a different
judgement and conclusion. You people laughed
at my explanation because you were immersed
with messages and information provided by Western media. You were not even reading
the Muslim media. In the UN…no,
UN Human Rights Council, Australia joined
the other 22 countries who wrote a letter to
the High Commissioner blaming China for the Xinjiang policy
that represents 600 million people. But there are more than 30 countries
who supported China, writing the same letter
to the High Commissioner. They represent…
three billion people. Let me just…
This… Yeah, please. Yeah. Let me interrupt,
because we do need to wrap this up. Jason, you talked earlier
about good China, bad China, and that Australia has this challenge
in dealing with both. A final thought. On this particular issue,
this is clearly bad China. I think we know what’s going on here and I think we need to call it out
in the strongest possible terms. What we need to ask, however… It’s great to talk about it here
in Q+A, watching the fireworks, it’s all good, but how do we… ..how do we make a real difference
on this issue as Australians? And I think there’s…there’s
two ways that we can do this. The first is we need to be able
to talk to the Chinese leadership at the highest levels in an environment of trust
so that our opinions are respected. So, that relationship that we have
with China is critically important. And I think that relationship
right now has seen better days. So we need to improve that,
number one. Number two is, to the good China, we need to find those areas where we can collaborate with China
positively to do something
about these issues. And I know that there was a time when our government
ran human rights programs together with the Chinese government
on this issue of domestic violence. Now, this is a really topical issue
in Australia right now and I imagine
it’s a topical issue in China. So, how do we find those areas
where our interests overlap, which aren’t quite
as heated as they are now, and build on the good stuff? Because I suspect
if we double down on good China, it allows us to have the trust,
the relationships to have the really hard, robust
discussions about bad China. GRANT: Can I just say something
really quickly about that, though? The world’s been waiting for that to
happen for a very long time, Jason. The idea always was that as China
becomes more wealthy, they’ll become like us,
that they will liberalise. Under Xi Jinping, we’ve all seen
doubling down on authoritarianism. So we can’t just expect that China
will become more like us if we find ways
to cooperate and communicate. We’re doing that
and we’re seeing Xi Jinping reject outright ideas
of liberalism and democracy. But then your alternative…
your alternative… Why should China
be like another Australia, if they had 1.4 billion people
while you have 25 million people, while you…? Yeah. Your alternative… I think if we’ve learned
one thing this evening, it’s that we need to do
another discussion about this. We do hope that you will come back.
I’ll be very happy to do that. I think the sensible voice
is too stifled here. I hope I will have
another opportunity to have in-depth discussion about whatever issue you are
concerned with. We look forward to having you back.
That’s all we have time for tonight. We’re about to attempt
one of the most extreme segues probably ever in television history, but before that,
would you please thank our panel – Wang Xining, Vicky Xu, Raina MacIntyre, Jason Yat-Sen Li
and Stan Grant. (APPLAUSE) Well, next week, we’re live in
Melbourne talking about our identity. Who are we and how is the face
of Australia changing? And to send us off
vaguely in that direction, someone who campaigns tirelessly
for tolerance and acceptance. Ahead of a national tour,
the song is called Pure, would you please welcome
Conchita Wurst? (APPLAUSE) # Look back to a time and the world # That I saw through
the eyes of my youth # Before I was told
to walk strong, to be tall # To believe in their truth # But the note that was wrong in
their song sang of me, mine and I # And I carried it deep inside # I give it every little beat
of my heart # Give it every single day
that I start # To find something simple and real # Oh-ooo # I give it every little piece
of my soul # Give up every
single bit of control # To know how it feels to feel # Pure # They turn you around and around # Shaping phantoms and empty facades # And you keep hanging on
to the words # Of their promises,
lies and charades # I’m walking past windows # Reflections of someone like me # But I don’t recognise what I see # I give it every little beat
of my heart # Give it every single day
that I start # To find something simple and real # Oh-ooo # I give it every little piece
of my soul # Give up every single bit
of control # To know how it feels to feel # Pure # Like the rain
from the heavenly skies # Pure # Like the tears streaming down
from my eyes # Pure # Like a newborn baby’s cries # Now I’m starting to recognise # Oh-oooo # I give it every little beat
of my heart # Give it every single day
that I start # To find something simple and real # Oh-ooo # I give it every little piece
of my soul # Give up every single bit
of control # To know how it feels to feel # Pure. # (APPLAUSE) Captions by Red Bee Media Copyright Australian
Broadcasting Corporation

100 Comments

  1. I bet those people are never seen again, that's why they don't want to go, not because they don't want cooperate.

  2. I applaud the ambassador's courage to be on the stage and tell Australian the truth they refuse to hear

  3. I can not say a word! any word support Chinese is forbidden here!

  4. As a diplomat, you are not just a person say something diplomatic without feeling. you need to express your anger.

  5. In fact, the Ui woman is Chinese. She has to obey Chinese law whether or not she had a baby with someone else.

  6. 我用英语发的任何解释中国政策的帖子都被删除了!ABC就是一个反共频道,不要再和他们解释什么了!

  7. the Ui woman does something to support the Uighur te(badmen). We have the right to limit her from leaving China!

  8. Hey man, do you realize that your counter-arguments had made people from around the world think that China is not trustworthy at all?

  9. The CCP big jigsaw is full of lies and blood.

  10. I’m a Chinese and I do agree communist party may have some disadvantages but which don’t? Think about the forest fire just happened in Australia . I did not see any advantage about the Australia’s capitalism.

  11. Yes Democracy and Freedom of Speech are WRITTEN in the PRC constitution, just written but it has never been implemented! I can certainly feel for the frustration of Stan and Vicky.

  12. We should all applause to Mr wang knowing he will be lynched by Australian media’s and still has the courage to act a fool in front of everybody. Beware everybody , he knows he will face the consequences after transferring back to China

  13. That's a good one to educate Aussie about how China is. But Aussie people r brainwashing with propaganda too long… They just can't accept the fact the CCP is well respected and doing an amazing job in China

  14. Who is this bald lady? She is a joke… Keep saying that "Chinese think… " they never think in her way😂😂😂

  15. ABC does make a lot of fake news…. What is not right?

  16. The bald lady…. 🤣🤣🤣yes it is ironic, because ABC is still doing misleading news here…

  17. These ignorant know nothing about the terrorist in Xinjiang…. If that happened in US or OZ. they will be dead… Instead of giving another chance in the train center

  18. “Which foreign forces ?”—“US “ how entertaining!

  19. Xi Jing Ping is NOT voted. This guy rubbished.

  20. This China ambassador looked not sincere, always try to frame his answer.

  21. Of course Chinese people on the street in China agreed with Chinese government simply showed how successful is brain-washing was. Because of total media sanction in China, people are closed from outside world, they know only that which CCP allowed them to hear by total controlled media.

  22. Coronavirus and flu, which one is more dangerous?

  23. As a mainland Chinese citizen oh sorry I am not a citizen just people who live in China without right- My Australian friend do u know what Mr Wang said? he said oh my God the sh*t smell so fcking good I wanna eat the fcking sh*it although people around him told him that the sh*it is not good for health and it is gross but as fcking party nature he can't stop eating and thinking about the fcking sh*t-what a poor man !

  24. The CCP guy sounds really honest and reasonable. Not.

  25. Whenever that Chinese official opened his mouth, LIED 🤥!

  26. sorry i don't have the world to listen through this, so how many votes did Chairman Xi got?

  27. I highly recommend to invite Pro. Zhang Weiwei on the stage to debate and answer questions.

  28. Woman's father dies and guy accuses the woman who wants to go back to the country of having done something "wrong"…and then says she shouldn't travel to China to see her deceased father because there shouldn't be "massive flows" at this time, just after criticizing Australia for preventing air travel between the two countries.

  29. I think comparing china's govt to Australia's govt is a waste of time- who is happy in AUs with having Scott Morrison as PM and who believes that people should NOT be wearing masks UNLESS they have the virus? whilst it is not an epidemic here YET once it is, I think masks for all susceptible to die from this virus 9ie all those with respiratory diseases) should be paramount……just sayin"

  30. These people are just willing to accept bad things in China, never watch the good things about china government did.

  31. The job of Chinese officials is to lie, and the job of the people is to feed the government

  32. Unbelievable

  33. Come on Wang – don't be your name

  34. For god’s sake just yes or no

  35. The politic standpoint is not neutral
    in this particular interview, I actually agree to a certain degree, people are submerged in the western media's portray of China which is bad and evil and have done no good. Media likes to simplify things so people can easily understand, they make it looks like the world has to be like a Cartoon where there are good people and bad people, nothing in between, you either good or bad, and focus on bad is what media likes to do.

  36. Horrible Chinese official lied to Australian. Mr. Wang did underestimate Australian and insulted Australian's capability to judge. Doesn't Australian feel anger to his answer?
    This is the angry voice from Taiwan.

  37. Few things I want to challenge.
    The host made the judgment that the fight for Coronavirus outbreak is a failure, and he made the conclusion China's development and political system is extremely fragile.
    I want to ask, based on what???????

    You always think we will be like you as China grows. However, we never will be. If you think that is evil, I can only say you are lack of imagination
    Now, the new fire comes to the door of Australia. Let's see what you are capable of.

  38. i wonder why the live audience didn't boo the CCP guy…

  39. Tired to listen to CCP members to tell lies. Hope Australians won't be faked.

  40. Well i think it is unfair to call Mr. Wang a liar. He made everyone here confirmed what the truth is about the issues addressed here from his feeble, dodgy and nervous utterings😂

  41. Can such people be special envoys? Shame

  42. why is there no video?cause I'm in China?

  43. Eventually, china government doesn't understand what democracy and human right are.

    The owner of country in china is Chinese Communist Party , not people of china.

    Can you see how ridiculous the Mr. Wang answer?

    You can not tell the summer worm, how cold the winter is.

    Just compare Taiwan and China, you might figure out it is long way that China is a democracy country

  44. The best way to embarrass a Chinese government mouthpiece is to keep pointing out the fact the question is still unanswered. Australians got this right, but in other interviews, the hosts were always acting too gentle and let those mouthpieces get away with by praising the economic contribution or talking about other irrelevant things.

  45. Should I laugh? Should I? 🤔

  46. China is democratic socialism??? What a way to attract sympathy from the left side of the political spectrum….
    Try to focus on the positive side of china?? ……haven't we tried that already? 2008 Olympic, accepting thousands of chinese students, chinese representative are allowed to meet with US businessmen and education sectors without prior notice, welcoming alibaba and many many other chinese businesses, allowing china to invest in Silicon Valley without any catch (unlike china)….etc.
    China is strong coz of ccp..that's what everyone says. Then china will collapse if ccp dissolves just like the USSR…so they say.
    Then they have no confidence in chinese ppl. They are basically saying that china's real economy is just as bad as russia…..they are nothing without ccp….I find that stupid.

  47. Conclusion everything different to democracy is s**t. Who's is brainwashed?

  48. ABC has shamelessly created the fake news of the so-called Chinese senior spy Wang Liqiang who turned out to be a cheater.

  49. This China gov representative was embracing his own country in this show. Chicanery doesn't work out. The facts are more and more clear and telling us what is going on for this Wuhan virus and what was happening in China… … I'm very happy Aus held this show and telling the world what is the truth. China made this virus disaster and spread to the world

  50. 玩政治的都是坏人,没有一个干净的

  51. 14:19 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😏

  52. Do the debate in Chinese!

  53. CCP is tumur of earth ! Human shall unite and remove it.

  54. This Chinese guy is live legend .

  55. The CCP, Beijing Government, is the deadliest virus for human beings. Therefore, it must be wiped out.

  56. This Mr Wang is just a sterotype from the Chinese government, they can just open their mouth and continue to lie eventhough the evidences are in front of them.
    Chinese government is the most evil after all !

  57. God Bless China👍

  58. @27:49 classic example of the one sided portrayal of China by western media nowadays – literally making accusations by playing a video with no context whatsoever – people in China know that there’s no democracy and the government lies sometimes, but many also recognize the enormous improvement in living standards – which the CCP, in big or small part, has helped deliver – meanwhile all western media focus on is how evil China is – now try to convince the Chinese people that the West knows better than the CCP what’s good for them? Jason Li might be a sellout to the CCP, but his call on a more balanced view is much needed, not just with the China issue, but also other things like climate change, gay rights etc – unfortunately objectivity and facts don’t sell news these days lol

  59. Western civilization originated from confrontation and plunder, while Chinese civilization originated from harmonious coexistence, which is the most fundamental gap

  60. typical stupid western media they collected all anti-chinese dissidents to the show. if there is 10%of Chinese hate communist party , the population is up to 140 million. but western media only like to report these chinese opinion

  61. As a full blood Chinese, I was sick watching the show on ABC.
    Chinese democracy: shooting students on TAM Square.
    Good China: the remaining decent people, splendid ancient culture. Bad China: The rotten CCP whose priority is controlling Chinese people.
    Go to Zhihu, a Chinese Q&A website: all questions and comments criticising government’s handling of corona virus disease have been instantly wiped out.
    Try to share a post about the great proletarian cultural revolution on WeChat. It will disappear in no time. You’ll see loads of propaganda posts distributed by 50 cents writers.
    You might make a lot of money keeping your mouth shut when cooperating with CCP. The question is: is it the right thing to do?

  62. 23:10… So the CCP is to big of a jigsaw puzzle…

  63. 48:06 Please watch at minimum this part…
    This summerises CCP officials opinions and how much you can trust in china.
    Make your own conclusions

  64. The Chinese represented CCP ambassador lies without a hiccup.

  65. You guys needed to berate the Chinese party member entirely.

    China needs to be pressed and pressured

  66. What a liar! Please answer the question, "Was it a mistake to silence Dr. Li?" Stop lying or beating around the bush!

  67. China will be great again.

  68. Chinese communism is the deadliest virus on earth. People of the communist party is not suitable to live on earth.

  69. Australia is a lapdog of the US………sure …everybody knew it

  70. Democracy = 1 citizen, 1 vote. Anyone who garner popular support will be nominated. Not just ONE candidate for president position!!

  71. Good job China!

  72. Stan Gran political show hijacked the show

  73. To sum up. No one's perfect except for CCP. 🐶

  74. I don't understand why we still have to listen to this sophistry.

  75. 阿富汗 叙利亚 利比亚 美国你推行的多么好的民主 一切都是为你的美元霸权 一家独大 收割全世界。那些死了几百万的人 无数的难民 怎么不播。 怎么没看你们去说你们的美爹

  76. The translation for the summary at the end from Jason: "look, china is different but whatever. We should just ignore anything bad they are doing and just focus on the things we have in common with them, i.e. cold $$$$$$$$"

  77. The CCP conning its population that ANTI CCP rhetoric is anti chinese is a tool to motivate the masses to hate. The singling out of and exaggeration about minorities (falun gong, Uyghurs, tibetans, central mongolians) is a tool to promote hate in the masses. just recently the CCP has been accusing the US of attacking china with the corona virus is a tool to promote hatred. The white anting of the united nations is a tool to promote hatred.
    There are many more examples of the CCP's politics of hatred
    Now to the question – " A Healthy Relationship? "
    ANS : There can not be a healthy relationship with a regime that butchers people for spare parts. A regime that instills racist hatred as a method of control. A regime that lies about anything. A regime that is a law unto themselves. A regime that disappears 'dissidents' in the middle of the night.
    The CCP has killed 60 million of its own citizens during the Great leap backwards, killed Tibetans , Uyghurs, and was the main backer of polpot
    It would be better to have a relationship with a cobra.
    The CCP is truly the sick man not only of asia but of the world.
    FREE HONG KONG

  78. you really didn't need the CCP representative to be there, A empty chair and a willingness to accept any question that would of been asked of him would be answered with a lie and playing of the race card

  79. 堅離地球

  80. Glad to see more and more people open their eyes now!

  81. I reckon Mr Wang would get along with Kellyanne Conway! 🤣🙃

  82. Jason Li is dangerous.

  83. Jason Li, admit this, "We all know China is a Authoritarian, Totalitarian, regime with no consideration of human rights, and behave like gangsters. But I have investors. So we all turn a blind eye. Now it appears China may not be able to perform or PAYBACK, we have a problem."

  84. Democratic country: freedom of speech
    China: No freedom after speech

  85. China is a Despotic Communist Regime… Top down no matter how benevolent it appears… It is a future enemy of freedom globally… Stop enriching it to pay compound loans to banksters!!!

  86. i like how in this new format, there is no one-minute rule which is better

  87. what is that moron doing there? exactly let him expose the party shame. well done good PR TACT.

  88. How ironic looking at this now? The coronavirus is revealing the fragility of China? China is about to declare victory over the war against the virus with daily new cases in single digit across a country of 1.3billion people. How about the west with checks and balances dealing with the crisis now? Now in Australia, people off the planes are entering the border without even temperature checks.

  89. I’m sorry for Fei’s father. But it’s the bad situation that don’t recommended you to go to China, not the Chinese government. You should take responsibility for your own action. You are asking too much.

  90. Communism didn't come from China. It's a Western political system which the West also rejects because the Western governments are now strongly manipulated by the rich elites. Seeking opinion from a 25+ years China traitor is foolish. She's a major of fake news for Aussie. When the late Dr Li died, the COVID-19 wasn't even being named by WHO.

  91. YOU GUYS ON [email protected] are muppets putting all those people together in the same room and why is the screen black when u broadcast??? on YT?

  92. You both did very well, Vicky and Stan! Make him face your questions directly and straightly. CCP officials are all very cunning to answer as they can't face the reality produced by them.

    Vicky, we are proud of your bravery and acute questioning there in the talk as you also came from China with Mandarin background. You have jumped out of your box of a mainlander background. And, I like your shaved head and that makes me want to shave mine to follow you.

  93. I live in China, Wang Xining was telling the lies all the time. He is liar !!!

  94. No matter what you ask, the ambassador's answers always were prepared political propaganda. Shame on Chinese officials because they earned their positions not because of brilliant and professional but telling lies shamelessly. I myself lived most of my life in China cannot even bear his ridiculous talk, how could western audience? It's like talking to a 2-year-old. However hard you try, he only knows cry. Because that's all he knows.

  95. Don’t cry for me, China🙄😞

  96. Then I went to German university for escaping from such scaring situations. Then I married a German guy and gave birth of two lovely boys. I stayed at home for many years for taking care of family and kids while my ex husband went to work. But then one day he betrayed me, fell in love with a young woman. He and his parents tried passively to kick me of our common house. Finally he even won, took the house and took away the kids. I had to move out alone without money and job. The judge was convinced by his reasons that our "German" kids should not be educated by foreign mother. None helped me except the evangelical church stuff. So I was asking we are talking so much about democracy… but if there is even no empathy and compassion to other human beings, how can we talk about democracy and freedom.

  97. I watch this video for more than 30 times which I've never done before for a video of more than 1hr. I find Mr. Xining so entertaining lol (I am not saying this as a compliment)

  98. Today is March 18th, 3 weeks later after this video, but you can see how the western DEMOCRACY fighting the virus, GOD BLESS YOU! hahahaahaha

  99. What is democracy? One ticket for each person to vote for your Prime Minister? Doing so would only lead a big country like China into chaos. What China needs for the time being is a small bunch of people with clear mind and firm goal to run the country and boost the economy, in other words, China needs ‘elite totalitarianism’. Yes, Chinese government needs to be more tolerant regarding different opinions. Yes, irrational voices should be suppressed by more rational and fact based voices. Yes, as time goes by, Chinese political system is becoming rigid . However, we do can see changes being made by the Chinese government regarding these issues, or at least its willingness. What China and its citizens afraid the most is turmoil in the society——turmoil offers no help either to the economy or to people’s daily life.

  100. "what would be different about this epidemic, if China was a democracy?"
    Isn't it interesting that the reality has answered your question 3 weeks later?

    active cases on 20.03.2020:
    Italy 33190; Spain 17390; Germany 17213; USA 14024; France 9328, and all are keep rising.
    meanwhile China 6569. I know I know, the number of China must be fake !!! cover up !!!
    lol, then let's see what will happen in another 3 weeks.

    Time is the best answer, isn't it?

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